The owners of the local gun shops in my area have been giving me a hard time receiving guns for registration. They sure are not cooperating with me. It is like pulling teeth. I will skip describing their little games.

Last year I bought 26 guns and 80% were shipped in to me. I think these guys get pissed off b/c the internet is kicking their butt. One shop owner has taken in over a dozen guns for me. If those were sales across his counter it would certainly be over a thousand or fifteen hundred dollars in his pocket. Jealous! I bought a single revolver and a .22 conversion barrel from him. I would have bought guns from him if he had anything I wanted. He pushes plastic guns.

I heard that a few shops in the Philadelphia area are not doing transfers. I will never enter their establishment. If they only want a large chunk of my money (50% markup per gun) rather than $40 or $50 for a transfer, then they will not get a d*** dime.

Is anyone else experiencing similar resistance?

Trolley

My dealer has no problem transferring guns for me. In fact if I don't buy one often enough he asks me what's wrong. On top of that he only charges me, and my friends, $20.00 for the paperwork. Of course, he works out of his home, but he does a lot of business.

I reciprocate and if he needs some work done on a gun I help him out too.

I am jealous.

I bought a few guns online and had them transfered at Delaware Valley Sports Center. They never complained, but they did charge $50 per transfer. I won my first gunbroker auction (the weapon is currently enroute to the FFL), and I used a private FFL (non-gun shop type business) for the first time. He's charging me $40.

Question to the OP: The items you are buying online and having shipped: can these dealers order them for you through their FFL and distributor channels? Could this be the problem?

My LGS owner has told me that he will attempt to order anything I want.

Can you find a local FFL that works out of his home? Or one that deals with guns OTHER than the type you buy? My guy builds custom Mosin-Nag's, works out of his home, charges $15 per transaction if you hold a CCW, $20 if you don't. Takes 5 minutes.

Bud's (and surely others) website has a "find an FFL" thingie. Enter your zip code, pick from a list.


Sgt Lumpy

For me, I find the prices of firearms at gun shops in the city of Philadelphia to be extremely high compared to other gun shops right outside Philadelphia. Usually I'll visit the gun shops in the suburbs for the better prices, but sometimes I don't feel like making the drive out there so I just order online and pay the high transfer fee. Even with the high transfer fee, it's still a lot cheaper than some of these gun shops in Philly.

The smart dealer will realize that unless shipping of firearms is stopped, transfers are going to be a part of business. There are many outfits that do that around here. My favorite only charges $25 a pop.

Re: OP. The business owner is in business to make a profit. If someone only wants them to provide a service with little or not profit then it should come as no surprise that the business owner has little interest in dealing with such persons. It makes no business sense. Cooperation is not even a consideration.

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They could lower their prices just a little bit.

Examples:

A M&P Shield 9 costs the gun store owner $300
Option 1: Sell 1 gun (today) @ $400, profit = $100
Option 2: Sell 3 guns (today) @ $350, profit = $150

A transfer costs the gun shop owner $10
Option 1: Do 3 transfers (today) @ $50, profit = $120
Option 2: Do 8 transfers (today) @ $30, profit = $160



I don't know about you guys, but if Gun Shop A and Gun Shop B are the same distance from my house, but Gun Shop A has lower priced firearms, then I am going to Gun Shop A.

I don't understand why you don't understand why they act that way.

Buy from my competitor and ask me to help you do it? Good day sir, I said good day!

ALL stores provide a service, their goods are not unique!

When you remove the service from 'public service' what's left?

They are in business to serve, I am not obligated to serve them.

A good inventory of used as well as new on display plus a well stocked ammo & accessories section is SERVICE. Any dealer that has the same gun as you are ordering needs to look at his ability to haggle.

I shop the big-box stores for "now" convenience, the internet for used & rare collectables, & the local gun store for service.

There's that elusive commodity again, SERVICE! Where do you find it?

Businesses are entitled to charge whatever they want and offer services to whoever they want.


That being said, if nobody wants to buy your extremely over-priced firearms or pay your ridiculous transfer fees then you're not going to stay in business very long. Also if your customer service is horribe (e.g. complaining to customers for buying guns online), then your customers are going to go somewhere else where they are treated better.

Because of the law requiring me to use an FFL to transfer my incoming guns, I have actually purchased quite a few guns in the store of the LGS that earned my transfer business with their cheap and easy transfer policy. Transferring is a gateway transaction, the smart business owner realizes this and welcomes customers, who may never have come in the door otherwise, with a decent transfer policy. The short sighted FFL acts like incoming transfers are stealing business from his store and drives away not only the profit from the transfer but from any additional purchases those customers might be tempted to make once in the store.

But let's be honest here, these LGSs should be very thankful that the federal government requires us to use an FFL to transfer a firearm as it's only thing that keeps many of them in business. If I could order guns directly from Amazon to my house without involving an FFL I'd rarely step foot in another gun store, just like I never go to Best Buy.

That is my range and where I get the best service. If you are a member the price drops to $35.00 or maybe that is the senior rate. Anthony, Steve and the rest of the staff are great. When I walked into the store for the third time they remembered my full name. Great people.

My LGS just received four guns for me to register. He hasn't said anything yet but I know what there thinking. I purchased new and used guns from him already. But now I'm looking for certain models which he didn't have.

This. I use a pawn shop where the guy is perfectly happy to do it for $20. I would think the shop that charges $50 would be happy to do it for the ten minutes work involved and no inventory to have to worry about, especially if the alternative is to have the customer go down the street and pay the competition to do the transfer

Most of my purchases are older revolvers. I have had orders in with three of them for a new model 627 for a year and a half. I also ordered a new model 617 and they got neither.

I did purchase plenty of guns locally: 686-5 2.5, 686-4 4", 586-7 IIRC 3" PC, a couple of model 10's, a 27-2 8 3/8, pre-27 5". and a few more. So they were making money from me for sure. I alos got two Glocks locally. Almost forgot a m60 nd w/ Highway Patrol logo two weeks ago. Sweet.

I've never done a transfer at my LGS. I use a pawn shop
for all my transfers. They only charge me ten dollars a
transfer, and they're nice about it too. My LGS hardly ever
has any 3rd Gens, which are my particular affliction. Once,
though, I stumbled across a practically NIB Model 4013TSW,
at the pawn shop, & they gave me a decent price too. I
generally buy ammo at the LGS, because they are competitive
as far as price goes. And I shoot at their range too. But
pay forty five dollars for a transfer? No freaking way!!

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

If you are truly a competitor, you offer the same product for the same price.

The fact that you have a FFL does not automatically make you a competitor. The license is not a franchise, a monopoly agreement, or any where else entitle it's holder to a share of the trade. Good service will do that, the SERVICE is what will bring 'em in.

If you've ever been in a bar, you will see what good service can add to public service. They all have the same goods for sale, but 10* have 90* of the business because of SERVICE

Trolley - what part of Philly are you in? I am in Abington and have a very reasonable guy I use in Willow Grove. He is right next to the Walmart and Sam's Club.

Well zzzippper, If they had THE GOODS, meaning the firearms I am looking, for at the market price they get my business. However they realized that they make much more profit from the sale of new guns, especially plastic guns as compared to used guns. So they stopped taking in as many used guns.

Now lets talk about 22 ammo. One dealer gets his shipments and hardly a box sees the shelves. Instead he is selling it online for inflated prices, makes his money and keeps his reputation. He does it from the second floor of the shop, will not even bring it down to the store. If he sells in the shop for the price he gets online people would complain like h***.

Yes. What do you say about this guy? Worm!

My range, at which I'm a member, does transfers for me. They don't mind.

They've also recently begun selling a few specific makes and models. They have sister ranges in Atlanta, and can work pricing deals. If they have something I want, they would work with me on price (as a member).

Sounds good. Please PM me.

It's 15 minutes for $20-$30 bucks (my area) which works out to $80-$120 bucks of revenue per hour.

A customer comes in, says "I'll give you $25 bucks to fill out this form for me"….hmm let me think….. um, YES.

Seems like free money left on the table by those FFL shops not willing to make a transfer.

Plus, you need some ammo for that new gun? Need a new pair of shooting glasses?

Revenue with no risk or cost up front, and increased foot traffic in the store. It's a no brainer.

We are frequenting the very same shops with the same high prices.

Today a range buddy (we go to Del Val) had ordered a small 9mm here in NE Philadelphia for $750.00.

Another shop is a 35 minute drive away, Jamison PA, the same gun is $650.00. Meanwhile Mr NE (not DVSC) gun shop owner had not even put the order in yet so Harry canceled it. Now we will be driving North tomorrow afternoon.

Yo Philadelphia Patriot we got room for another guy! Hook yea up with some reloads too.

Trolley

So buy from our competitors and NONE of us will transfer (to us) your ****.

Or maybe we'll charge $500 for a local transfer. We're not jealous, just support local businesses.

And I am not a gun dealer. I just support my neighbor.

I'm doing Gettysburg this weekend with my girlfriend, but if I wasn't then I'd go. I'm 5 minutes from Del Val.

If they decided they wanted to charge $500 for a local transfer, then I'd get my FFL and charge $25. Then I'd laugh my way to the bank when everybody stops using the businesses who charge $500.

Also I have a right to make a profit and charge whatever I wanted to, but I'm not going to take full advantage of people's 2nd Amendment rights and make it impossible for people of lower social economic statuses to be able to defend themselves.

God I love this forum!

Re: Prices at LGS's / costs of transfers. With respect, the Op referenced a LGS compared to on-line sources. The examples of the M&P Shield and the transfer cost are without foundation in reality. Local markets are dynamic. Further it is easy to suggest what a store owner should or should not do. Such suggestions are unconvincing as the person making that suggestion has no skin in the game. The owner of the store does. If someone making a suggestion about sales, etc. makes a mistake, it cost them nothing. If the store owner makes a mistake, it cost them money.

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PM sent. We need to have a Philly get together. Philadelphia Patriot, Arik, me, you, anyone interested?

Sounds good, Count me in.

My Advise:
Get a C&R FFL. Since I primarily collect older guns this takes care of a big percentage of my interstate purchase and transfers requirements.
My biggest gripe with 01 FFLs are those that won't accept or transfer guns to C&R license holders. I am pretty sure this is just a case of resentment as we are looked at as individuals cutting into their revenue.
Jim

I just look on GB for FFL transfers. I can always find an FFL holder - usually not gun shop owners, who will do the transfers for $20.00.

Jeff

What you are calling "profit" is not. It is operating margin. Out of that comes shipping, heat, light, rent, wages, insurance, water and sewer, advertising, and charitable donations to the local school, girl scouts, fire and rescue, and dog rescue, not to mention payments to the bank for his business loan, checking fees, credit card fees. Then he gets to pay property taxes and income taxes on any profit the business may turn. If he takes home $10 on a $400 sale, he is doing very well. There is a reason lots of small stores fail. If gunshop A undersells everybody, he probably won't be there long enough to worry about. Old saying in retail: "I know I was selling below cost, but I thought volume would carry me".

Margins on new guns run in the 10% to 20% range, from what little google fu I have. Margin on a gun in the $400 range would be $40 to $80. Kind of slim. Actual money is made on consumables-targets, cleaning supplies, cases, ammo (damn gougers), the things you go to Wally World to get because they are cheaper.

For all the fun involved, like dealing with horse trading gun owners, mall ninjas, crusty old experts, rank amateurs, bankers, ATF, people who drop the guns, dry fire with out asking, greasy fingered kids, our lucky store owner gets to work 60 to 80 hours per week while trying to balance books that don't show any profit at all while being second guessed by people who have never tried to run a business.

Reading some of these posts really makes me appreciate my LGS. I have transferred a number of guns through him and he charges me $ 20. He also knows I check with him first before I buy anything on line or from another individual and he also knows he gets all my reloading sales, which can sometimes be higher than a gun purchase, primers and powder ain't cheap and I never argue price with him. It's a two way street, I'm fair with him and he's fair with me.

Perhaps you should look for a gunsmith that does not run a retail store as well. He will still have an FFL and can do transfers. Since he doesn't have a display counter or retail gun sales he will not see it as competition.

The FFL that I use charges $10 per transfer. My local gun shop charges $50. Let me lay out the business case and say that I hypothetically buy a gun a month via Gunbroker.

My FFL who charges for filing a piece of paper and making a phone call:
$10 x 12 transfers/year = $120

My LGS who seems to think that if I didn't find a pre-war Outdoorsman online, then I would buy a Glock from them:
$50 x 0 transfer/year = $0

I have a good relationship with my LGS. I basically buy stuff they don't carry (historical stuff). However, if they get something that they know I might like, I'll get a phone call and, sometimes, first chance at it. Some examples are a 1943 1911A, bring back from Iwo Jima; a 1918 GI issue 1911, a 1917 New Service GI issue. In exchange, I have told them a couple of times when I felt their prices were too high, a gun was mis-marked or, Heaven forbid, they were too low on a price! A couple of times, I have let them display a gun I bought on-line before I picked it up (Marked "Not for Sale"), to draw people in (a 1901, engraved Bisley, unique engraving, Mexican/Indian history, nickeled, carved ivory with rubies)

My ffl charges me $45 to bring one in,but he will ship for me too,which saves me money and aggravation.

First I must say, "I am not a local gun shop owner."

"But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night..."

I'd imagine that most gun shop owners are doing what they do to make a profit... and obviously like the kind of business they are in.

It would seem to me that if "profit" is the objective, then it doesn't make any difference whether it comes from transfers, new guns, consignment sales, or selling cleaning patches.

Somewhere between free and $500 per transfer ought to be a price that works.... one that is high enough to more than cover time and effort, but is low enough to keep people coming in the door.

I've bought guns from my local when they had something I wanted but then gladly paid them $40 for transfers when I bought elsewhere. I'd still go to them (because they offer good friendly service) even if I could get it done around the corner for 20 bucks.

In the late 90's a big LGS had 3 Beretta 686 Silver Pidgin 28 gauges at $1700 each. At the same time a dealer in S. Carolina had an add for same gun he had 20 @ $1000 OTD. I made an offer for $1100 to the LGS after showing him the add. He said he would make money at that price but would keep the gun to sell to someone else. 2 years later he still had 3. Life is just tough sometimes! Ivan
PS with fright and transfer I got it for $1073.

My dealer charges $25 per transfer. Occaisonally he says "don't worry about this one." I do a lot of business with him.
I do know some other FFLs are not happy with his transfer fee, and they work out of their home.

Good friend operates a small gun shop.He knows he usually can't compete with the online guys.He's lucky to be able to make fifty bucks on a new gun that he orders and sells after they hammer him for shipping.He's done as many as ten transfers a day from time to time at 25 bucks a pop from on line purchases that are shipped to him for pick up.Said he'd do them all day long.Easy money.If there's any problem it's all between the buyer and the seller and he usually has no grief.He does try to help if there's a problem if he can and sometimes he can.It has brought him some business.A couple of guys have had him order guns that they could have gotten somewhat cheaper on line but said because he gave them no attitude they prefer to try to help the local guy.

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I'm just here for the guns.

There are plenty of dealers in PA who are actively seeking customers such as yourself. Some charge as little as $15 to do a transfer. Take a look at
FFL Guide for State |

cowart, I just found out how right you are. Today three of us drove up to Tanner's in Jamison PA and I purchased two guns and the fee was $15.00 for both guns. (new Kimber Eclipse Target II and a Colt Diamondback 4").

And I will add that the price of the Kimber was $200.00+ less than in Philadelphia, and the sales tax was 2% lower. Oh, and the service was good.

Trolley

How would that help the OP? He gave no indication of being interested in C&R firearms. He seems to be primarily interested in current firearms.

See C&R FFL 03 Resources

Have been on BOTH sides of the counter on this one-- before the internet, all you heard was the crying of how 'kitchen FFL
s' were a ruin to their business. Bull pucky -- Many of these places cannot or choose not to stock what people want, or need. Then they cry when we go somewhere else. When they DO get in something worthwhile, the mark it up over the top. I have seen it for 40 years so don't bother trying to convince me different. It is a tough business, if you are not up to it, maybe you should do something else. Case in point, shops that don't even open the door until 10 or 12pm, then maybe not at all. We all adjust to our own needs. If a shop owner is unwilling to adjust to the needs of the buying public, then-- I am sure most here know the drill. JMHO of course.

I have shopped there since they opened 22 years ago and have found a lot of good guns. They usually have a good selection of used and new firearms and will special order as well.

The fee on gun purchases is $10 for the first, and $5 for each additional gun purchased at the same time.

Now that you got that Diamondback I won't be tempted each time I go in there