I just noticed that Gump and all other solders have no slings on their M16's. Is that because they were movie props or was it a political correctness issue for the movie or were they actually removed in the field for noise management? Curious......

Okay, I don't know the answer but do have one. What would P. C. Have to do with it?

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Support your Police, & NRA

Beat me to the question.

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I always take precautions

I never had a sling on my M-16 . nobody used them. they would snag in jungle terrain. the M-16 had a " carrying handle" rear sight that was used in place of a sling.

vinny
RVN 67-68

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"GUNS UP"

There are a lot of mistakes in that movie. According to this, Gump was there in '68-'69, by which time the M16A1 would have been in service, yet according to the IMFDB, the rifles in the movie are earlier M16 rifles.

If the movie were to be correct, they should have been humping M16A1s with nylon "seat belt" slings by 1969.

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SWHF #448

I don't expect movies, especially fantasy films like "Forrest Gump" to be particularly realistic in the details. But as I recall during my time in Vietnam, '70-'71, we did not have slings at all. But that was a very long time ago and some details seem to fade away over time.

It could have been something as simple as the rifles came from the prop warehouse without slings and no one cared

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Retired Career Security Guard

Your rifle was carried in your hands not over your shoulder. Slings were to noisy as well. The movie got it right.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Not to be disagreeable, for there is no doubt that a lot of guys removed slings for whatever reasons, but far too much photographic evidence exists showing combat troops with slings intact for blanket statements like "nobody used them" to be entirely correct.



















...and so on ad infinitum.

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SWHF #448

I suspect there was a lot of local Standard Operating Procedure, or SOP, involved. If the squad leader, platoon sergeant, company commander, or whatever says take it off, you take it off.

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Proud anachronism

Some of us used slings, some didn't. (2/502 Inf. 101st Inf. Div. '67-68)

It was the individual's choice. A common sling use was a web sling, used in the single point method where the sling was looped through the carrying handle and hung from the shoulder. This allowed both hands to be free getting through wait-a-minute bushes, yet the rifle could be brought up instantly into the firing position.

As to movies, the most realistic scene I've seen was in "Platoon" where after humping up a hill the newby collapse on his back resting on the ruck on a pile of fire ants. Been there, done that.

Yes, good point. Not that it's scientific or anything, but most of the photos I found of troops with slings absent are those of more specialized units- Marine Recon, SEALs, etc.

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SWHF #448

Good info on the slings may have just been my unit I didn't have much contact with other units we stayed in the field my entire tour. 1/321 & 1/501 14Dec67-14Dec68

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Depended on the unit. We took ours off before leaving the wire. Some guys would tie their sling on the front sight, the other end on the butt stock, right where it met the upper, use it like today's tactical slings.

In Army basic training and infantry AIT (1968) we trained on the M14 rifle, with a brief familiarization on the M16. Apparently the transition had not been completed by that time, or perhaps the new M16's were going out to combat units first before training outfits received deliveries.

Use of the rifle was heavily emphasized, with some very good instruction on some of the finer points. We learned how to use the "shooting sling" at prone, sitting, kneeling, and offhand positions, and I became a believer in that. I took the post rifle trophy during basic training with a perfect score (M14), qualified as expert with every infantry weapon from the pistol to the M2 .50BMG, and was later selected for the US Army Marksmanship Training Unit where I competed with both service rifle and pistol.

In Vietnam I learned to appreciate the M16 due to its lighter weight, and much lighter ammunition, which mean a lot to infantrymen in the field. I was never greatly impressed with the M16's accuracy, particularly at extended ranges, but found it to be generally serviceable (if properly maintained and lubricated correctly). I always used the sling for shooting, kept mine clearly marked at the point where it was properly adjusted for the "shooting sling" method.

Equipment noise in the field was dealt with using duct tape or electrical tape on everything that might jingle, jangle, or clink. Sling swivels, pack straps, LBE gear, everything was cinched down and taped up. It is just about impossible for a group of men to move through the bush without making any noise, but we limited it in every way we could.

To this day when I am firing a rifle, at the range or in the field, I continue to use the shooting sling. The added stability, with or without a rest, can make a big difference.

Deferring to a fantasy film for any semblance of historical accuracy will yield minimal positive results.

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I'm with the banned ...

Still waiting for an explanation of why the use of a sling would or would not be politically correct.

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I always take precautions

Never used a sling. was already carrying over 70#'s of ruck, gear and ammo. 4/31st, 196th LIB, 23rd Inf. Div. Americal, 70-71.

As an afterthought I should say that Colt was a deadly shooter! I carried it except when I took the
pig for two weeks. Made sure I got that same ser# Colt back. I'm here as living proof, I left the enemy
rotting and came back to the "World".

This is one of them posts that jog the old memories.
I carried the 60 my whole tour, but I couldn't remember if the riflemen used slings or not.
I had to pull out the pictures,-- I can tell you that no one in my unit used slings. I'm sure as an earlier post said: Unit Regs, & CO's personal likes/dislikes would have been the rule.

P.S. In the pictures above something is wrong--It shows a guy with a 7th Infantry Div. Patch, I don't remember the 7th ever being in VN---Someone check me

OK, 25 guys used them, however "nobody" in my outfit did. Great historical pics, thanks.
vinny

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"GUNS UP"

The patch is on his right shoulder. Doesnt that mean served in a former unit?

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"GUNS UP"

yes it does

Maybe that explains it as i was with the "Hawk" Recon
LRRP. 2/327th 101st AB

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"GUNS UP"

Yes, Right side was your former unit, Left sleeve current.

That must have been an early picture, I don't remember anybody coming in country with fatigues with their former unit patch. All the FNG's had brand new jungle fatigues. Once out in the field we were resupplied with generic, no emblem ones.

I and most of the guys in my unit didn't use a sling. Being armored cav. if you (hopefully never) had to get your rifle out of the holder and then out of the track in a hurry you didn't need one more thing to get snagged up.

The infantry? I just don't remember. (gemmie a break. That was 1966)

The only guys I even remember wearing any unit patches were the REMF's back at the Division base camp-- Camp Enari in my case.

Patches, we don't got to show you no stinkin patches....
Never had any on our jungle fatigues. I Corps, 12 Months in rotten stinking festering jungle. Never knew where I was.
Just a Spec.4 Grunt, killing and dying to go back to the World!

The guy in question is LTC Hal Moore. He was in the 7th ID during the Korean War. LTC (later LTG) Moore was the Bn commander of the 1/7th Cav, 1st Air Cav Divison at LZ Xray and wrote the book "We were soldiers once, and young". It was later made into a movie.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

REM 3200 wins the prize.

More on Moore: LiveLeak.com - The Real 'We Were Soldiers'

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SWHF #448

Quite a solider, "in-country" all the way down to the montanyard bracelet... i love this thread, can you tell?

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"GUNS UP"

That would have been quite early. As I recall, the Ia Drang Valley fight, aka LZ X-Ray, was 1966. LTG Moore's book, "We Were Soldiers Once, and Young" was required reading in my IOBC class.

Incidentally, the right shoulder patch shows not the former unit, but the wearer's former wartime service. Today, we call it a combat patch.

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Proud anachronism

I recognized the spare Battery, Magnesium that Forrest was humpin' for the trusty PRC-25...

You are a year to late. It was November 1965.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

So brother, you had a lot of up-to-date, new gear when you were in? That's not how I remember the Corps!

Still got one of those bracelets and a P38 . Wore that thing for many years it is almost worn out in a couple of places. Probably made out of shell casing brass . I got it up around Quang Tri I think right after Tet . P38 still works good though.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Yeah, I did, actually, not that it has anything to do with the topic of the thread. But since you asked, the first rifle one of Uncle Sam's armorers ever handed me was a brand-spankin' new one fresh out of a crate one warm January morning in sunny San Diego. It only got better from there. Me and the others who got the new ones were the envy of the platoon until we found out it's not as easy and fast to break down a new rifle as it is a nice old loose broken-in one hundreds of recruits before you slicked-up for you. We pushed a lot for being slow that way. Bloody hands and arms on the parade deck was a lot of fun, too, due to all the sharp burrs and edges new rifles have. You wouldn't think a cheesy plastic handguard could hurt you until you realize your left paw's hamburger after going to port arms the hundredth time or so that day.

As for up-to-date, you realize the Marine Corps was the first to field the M16A2, probably the best version of the rifle ever produced, among a long list of other items, right?

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SWHF #448

Yes, in the mid 80's. The Army followed in the late 80's.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

Nawilson - you beat me to it. By the way, I've been told the "combat patch" is going away now. In the future, a small, metalic pin that depicts the unit patch that the wearer served in during war time will be worn on the (right hand?) front pocket.

Regards,

Dave

I thought right sleeve was if you had been in combat with that unit?

The combat patch is going to the pocket on the Army Service Uniform only. That is what took the place of the old, green Class As and the Dress Blue uniforms. ASUs are blue also, but personally I don't like that we basically did away with one level of formality. With ASUs, Soldiers wear a heavy, white shirt with a black tie for normal business, and then put on a standard white shirt and bow tie for formal events.

On ACUs we still wear the combat patch on our right shoulders. Don't get me started on ACUs...

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Proud anachronism