Do NICS checks come with check against stolen guns?

bushmaster1313

bushmaster1313

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All my purchases have been through FFL's -- with a NICS check of course.

Does that mean the guns were checked against a register of stolen guns?

Does obtaining any gun through an FFL mean that the gun was checked when the FFL logged it in?
 
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bushmaster1313 said:
All my purchases have been through FFL's -- with a NICS check of course.

Does that mean the guns were checked against a register of stolen guns?

Does obtaining any gun through an FFL mean that the gun was checked when the FFL logged it in?
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The only stolen gun (that I know of) that I've ever owned was purchased on a 4473 from a storefront FFL.

That was before the Brady Bill, but to the best of my knowledge, there is NO such requirement in Federal law.

The NICS check is a check of the purchaser to determine if he or she is a "prohibited person". It isn't tied to the serial number of the gun. That would amount to registration, and would be illegal, at least as a Federal requirement.
 
Thanks to cmort666
I always just assumed that a check would "flag"
a stolen gun but i guess not.
Interesting.


Chuck
 
It depends on your state.

The "Brady check", federally required, works as cmort666 explained and is independent of the gun.

But how the check is actually performed, that is, through which agency it is routed and what else is involved, depends on your state law. Most states do the minimum, but others go further. My state, Oregon, requires running the gun through NCIC (the FBI stolen items database) at the same time the buyer is run through NICS (the personal background check).

Some object to that as a matter of principle, I don't. I've had two occasions where theft reports popped up on guns I tried to buy. Some may worry about "registration", I worry more about buying someone else's problem.
 
Absalom said:
It depends on your state.

The "Brady check", federally required, works as cmort666 explained and is independent of the gun.

But how the check is actually performed, that is, through which agency it is routed and what else is involved, depends on your state law. Most states do the minimum, but others go further. My state, Oregon, requires running the gun through NCIC (the FBI stolen items database) at the same time the buyer is run through NICS (the personal background check).

Some object to that as a matter of principle, I don't. I've had two occasions where theft reports popped up on guns I tried to buy. Some may worry about "registration", I worry more about buying someone else's problem.
Click to expand...

I would be very happy to have my purchases run through the NCIC
 
Absalom said:
It depends on your state.

The "Brady check", federally required, works as cmort666 explained and is independent of the gun.

But how the check is actually performed, that is, through which agency it is routed and what else is involved, depends on your state law. Most states do the minimum, but others go further. My state, Oregon, requires running the gun through NCIC (the FBI stolen items database) at the same time the buyer is run through NICS (the personal background check).

Some object to that as a matter of principle, I don't. I've had two occasions where theft reports popped up on guns I tried to buy. Some may worry about "registration", I worry more about buying someone else's problem.
Click to expand...

With the info above I did a Google search for New Jersey and NCIC and found this posted by the New Jersey State Police:

National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NCIC)
Criminal Information Unit
The New Jersey State Police (NJSP) NICS Operation Center conducts background checks for Federal Firearms Licensees (FFL) on prospective firearm purchasers in accordance with the provisions set forth in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, 18 U.S.C. Section 922. The NICS Operation Center transmits a formatted message to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) NICS Operation Center accessing the Interstate Identification Index (III), National Crime Information Center (NCIC) hot files and the NICS Index. In addition to these files the NJSP NICS Operation Center accesses the following New Jersey data bases: the Administrative Office of the Courts (AOC) Domestic Violence Central Registry, the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission (NJMVC) files and the NJSP Firearms Investigations Unit files.
Click to expand...

This gives me some comfort, and I sincerely appreciate the members and the posts that led me to this information.
 
As noted, Federal, state and local law are different animals.

I've had relatives in Chiraq ask me if my guns are "registered".

There's literally no way to "register" a non-NFA firearm in Ohio. There's nobody with whom TO register it. There are NO gun laws here except for state and Federal ones, and neither of those require registration of non-NFA items.
 
The FFL doesn't have access to NCIC to check for stolen,,that's L/E only.
An FFL may have a L/E buddy that'll run a number for him/her, but that's on them.

A few states who run their own background check as opposed to the FFL calling the FBI NICS line will run the gun for stolen. IIRC, Tenn did that.

A gun doesn't have to be 'registered' to anyone,,only reported to a L/E agency as Stolen/Missing and entered into NCIC.

It's there forever,,It 'hits' on ser# only,,the rest of the info entered is for descriptive only and used to sort through the multiple hits you sometimes get when entering a firearm inquiry for stolen (GINQ).
If the operator/dispatcher doesn't know what they are looking at, it can be a very large cluster...
 
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I have first hand experience that they do not run the number to check for stolen guns.
I bought a nib 16-4 32 mag, a grail gun for me, paid $1000, a few months later I got a call from an in state PD that said I had bought a stolen gun and I had to turn it in and take the $1000 loss.
This was bought from a dealer, that's how they tracked it to me.
The dealer told me too bad and wouldn't do anything to make it right.
 
madmikeb said:
I have first hand experience that they do not run the number to check for stolen guns.
I bought a nib 16-4 32 mag, a grail gun for me, paid $1000, a few months later I got a call from an in state PD that said I had bought a stolen gun and I had to turn it in and take the $1000 loss.
This was bought from a dealer, that's how they tracked it to me.
The dealer told me too bad and wouldn't do anything to make it right.
Click to expand...

Generally, under the law a seller is on the hook for selling stolen goods
 
I agree with Wrangler Rich. I would love to see this happen. I unknowinlgly bought a stolen shotgun once thru my FIL. He was a big hunter and was always trading and buying and it just so happened he did not want this particular piece and thought of me. Of course it being an Iver-Johnson 410 shotgun and they only wanting $25.00 for it I bought it. When the Sheriff came and confiscated it I asked about my money and got the reply that I would probably never see it.
 
bushmaster1313 said:
I would be very happy to have my purchases run through the NCIC
Click to expand...

On a certain level this sounds reasonable but there is a small problem before 1968 firearms were not required to have a unique serial number.

Here in Utah all used firearms taken in by a retailer or pawnshop must be reported to be put into a State database and held buy the retailer for 15 days before being sold or returned to the owner by the pawnshop.

Thankfully where I work, we are by far and way the largest retailer of used firearms in the state, we've rarely had a firearms turn up as stolen. Now to that problem of none unique serial numbers.

Last year we had an early Smith & Wesson Model 51 where the serial number turned up as stolen. If a gun turns up stolen we can't sell it until the police release the firearm or come pick it up. It took the local PD over 6 months before they released the hold. Here is the problem they had. The police had a 20 plus year old report of a Smith & Wesson with the the same serial number but no more information. It took the police months to run down the original owner only to find out that the stolen S&W was a .38 Special.

We've had some guns that turned out to be stolen and were returned to the owners and the person selling to us was prosecuted which is great. I don't mind that we have to report and hold all guns for the state database but the system is less than ideal.

Many firearm manufacturers serial numbered by model prior to 1968. Just imagine how many Smith & Wesson, Winchester or Colts have a serial number 53xxx.

Checking all firearms against a stolen gun database sounds like a great idea but the reality of it is less than ideal.

that was my minor rant for the day...carry on.
 
Ogandydancer said:
I agree with Wrangler Rich. I would love to see this happen. I unknowinlgly bought a stolen shotgun once thru my FIL. He was a big hunter and was always trading and buying and it just so happened he did not want this particular piece and thought of me. Of course it being an Iver-Johnson 410 shotgun and they only wanting $25.00 for it I bought it. When the Sheriff came and confiscated it I asked about my money and got the reply that I would probably never see it.
Click to expand...
Fortunately, I'd already traded the stolen Colt Official Police that I bought from an FFL, to another FFL in the same area.

I wasn't notified until the late '80s or early '90s. The store to which I traded the gun contacted me through the Army Locator Service. They sent me a letter saying that the BATF wanted to know where I'd gotten it. I called the store, told them the name of the dealer from whom I'd bought it, and that was the end of my participation. I fortunately had no contact with the BATF at all.
 
bushmaster1313 said:
Generally, under the law a seller is on the hook for selling stolen goods
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, after conversations with the DA, the only recourse I would have against the dealer would be if I could prove he knew it was stolen when he sold it to me.

He made restitution a part of any parole hearing for the perp, but I know I'll never see a nickle of my money.
 
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My previous statement regarding what's on the 4473 was erroneous. I was thinking about what's communicated during the NICS check, not what's on the paper form.
 
A description of the gun, including the serial number is on the 4473 form. Therefore the ATF knows who has what gun. As far as I can see, that's the same thing as registering the gun. The ATF has the records, you know they're keeping them somewhere forever.
 
Toolguy said:
A description of the gun, including the serial number is on the 4473 form. Therefore the ATF knows who has what gun. As far as I can see, that's the same thing as registering the gun. The ATF has the records, you know they're keeping them somewhere forever.
Click to expand...
There have been repeated reports of BATFE agents optically scanning large numbers of 4473s during dealer visits.

If true, this can't be for an innocent purpose.
 
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