lawandorder
Member
Who ya going call?
Ghost Guns
- Thread starter 7shooter
- Start date
One more media created pejorative term coined to further their pursuit of total gun control.
Just like gun violence, assault weapon, social distancing, flattening the curve, etc. the left needs a negatively connoted term to describe something they don't like and want banned/controlled.
At the end of the day just remember, gun control is not about guns, its about CONTROL.
Just like gun violence, assault weapon, social distancing, flattening the curve, etc. the left needs a negatively connoted term to describe something they don't like and want banned/controlled.
At the end of the day just remember, gun control is not about guns, its about CONTROL.
schutzen-jager
Member
manufacturing any firearm has been illegal in N.J. for well over 70+ without a state manufactures license -
How about the guy that built and entire AR lower from beer cans? Yes, the whole thing. A series of videos. Pulled from youtube but links to Full 30 for the entire process. Ya the guy had $20.000 worth of machine tools.
Heck remember when Glocks were invisible guns and people freaked out.
In Sates with no gun registration, firearms can change hands so many times, there is no way to trace them so even serial numbered guns are invisible. How many bad guys actually leave a gun behind at the crime scene??
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb2vOWOSojY[/ame]
Heck remember when Glocks were invisible guns and people freaked out.
In Sates with no gun registration, firearms can change hands so many times, there is no way to trace them so even serial numbered guns are invisible. How many bad guys actually leave a gun behind at the crime scene??
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb2vOWOSojY[/ame]
keith44spl
Member
Well now,
Let's trace that serial numbered gun....
Manufacturer to wholesaler to retailer and first sale on a 4473.
Which could very well be the End of the Trail.
.
Let's trace that serial numbered gun....
Manufacturer to wholesaler to retailer and first sale on a 4473.
Which could very well be the End of the Trail.
.
The term "ghost gun" refers mostly to the 80% receivers. A gun manufactured before 1968 that has never been through the system is often referred to as a "cold gun" because there is no paper trail and if traced it would come up cold.
A 80% gun once completed is legal to own in most states but cannot be sold unless one applies through the ATF for a ser#. Personally 80% receivers have never interested me, when you buy a stripped receiver the paper work doesn't reflect as a gun anyway it's considered a "other"
doesn't show cal., rifle or pistol just a number.
A 80% gun once completed is legal to own in most states but cannot be sold unless one applies through the ATF for a ser#. Personally 80% receivers have never interested me, when you buy a stripped receiver the paper work doesn't reflect as a gun anyway it's considered a "other"
doesn't show cal., rifle or pistol just a number.
Justin T
Member
The phrase is a tag phrase meant to grab attention. Like giving a serial killer a nickname.
In reality it refers to a gun without a serial number that has been made by an individual. The law allows for this activity. The fact that criminals with nefarious intent take advantage of that has always been a part of the deal.
In reality it refers to a gun without a serial number that has been made by an individual. The law allows for this activity. The fact that criminals with nefarious intent take advantage of that has always been a part of the deal.
Almost every gun I own I bought used. Some of them couldn't be trace to me on a bet. Lets take a model 28-2 made and sold after the GCA of 68.
Went from S&W to distributor to Bob's gun shop. Bobs sold it to Frank Smith and a 4473 was completed and remains in Bob's records. Frank keeps the gun for 8 years and sells it to Joe Smith in a state where private sales are legal, which was most all of them from 68 till in to at least the 90s and still is in the majority of states. Joe gets broke and Pawns the gun. Pawn shop sells it to Billy Bob with a 4473, But there is no way for the BATF to find the Pawn shop without talking to first Frank then Joe, if they are both alive and can remember or kept records that someone knows about. Now what did Billy Bob do with it? Trade it too Pete for a shotgun? How many hands have some of my older guns gone through? Even a gun I bought off Gunbroker, seller may not even remember what FFL he shipped it to. I started buying guns when I was 18, I don't have many off them from prior to being about 40 and I haven't got a clue when, who or where I sold some of them. They are now "Ghost Guns" for all intents and purposes. It would be interesting if the BATF could put together every 4473 I ever filled out and started asking me where the guns went. LOL. Not remembering what happened 25 years ago is not a crime and selling a gun without a record has never been a crime here and they can't make retro active laws. That story can be repeated a million times by a million people.
I do find the 80% guns interesting. Got one in my pile and will make it someday, just for fun. But, there are lots of CNC mills cabable of making a billet of aluminum into an AR lower for sale out there and some of the prices are very reasonable. I am sure the basic program wouldn't be hard to come by either. Lots off companies making ARs, 1911s, etc. According to WIKI, over 500 are now making ARs. How hard can it be??
The idea that they can control or track the flow and sale of guns is hilarious. Even our own government can't tell you where all of the ones they have purchase are. Sandinista, Fast and Furious, Central and South America, the middle east, Africa Bosnia etc etc. Our country is one of the worlds largest exporter of small arms.
Went from S&W to distributor to Bob's gun shop. Bobs sold it to Frank Smith and a 4473 was completed and remains in Bob's records. Frank keeps the gun for 8 years and sells it to Joe Smith in a state where private sales are legal, which was most all of them from 68 till in to at least the 90s and still is in the majority of states. Joe gets broke and Pawns the gun. Pawn shop sells it to Billy Bob with a 4473, But there is no way for the BATF to find the Pawn shop without talking to first Frank then Joe, if they are both alive and can remember or kept records that someone knows about. Now what did Billy Bob do with it? Trade it too Pete for a shotgun? How many hands have some of my older guns gone through? Even a gun I bought off Gunbroker, seller may not even remember what FFL he shipped it to. I started buying guns when I was 18, I don't have many off them from prior to being about 40 and I haven't got a clue when, who or where I sold some of them. They are now "Ghost Guns" for all intents and purposes. It would be interesting if the BATF could put together every 4473 I ever filled out and started asking me where the guns went. LOL. Not remembering what happened 25 years ago is not a crime and selling a gun without a record has never been a crime here and they can't make retro active laws. That story can be repeated a million times by a million people.
I do find the 80% guns interesting. Got one in my pile and will make it someday, just for fun. But, there are lots of CNC mills cabable of making a billet of aluminum into an AR lower for sale out there and some of the prices are very reasonable. I am sure the basic program wouldn't be hard to come by either. Lots off companies making ARs, 1911s, etc. According to WIKI, over 500 are now making ARs. How hard can it be??
The idea that they can control or track the flow and sale of guns is hilarious. Even our own government can't tell you where all of the ones they have purchase are. Sandinista, Fast and Furious, Central and South America, the middle east, Africa Bosnia etc etc. Our country is one of the worlds largest exporter of small arms.
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Exactly. And if the FFL closes or changes ownership all the paper copies of the 4473 forms and the dealers bound books of transactions are picked up by the ATF.
What happens to the paper trial then???
Just as a general observation, the despot always fears what he cannot control.
Most of us own older guns that could never be traced. I know I have one.
Before my late hubby passed he told me, sell all his guns except the Ruger, it can't be traced. He had owned it for 30+ years and it is questionable where/how he got it.
Before my late hubby passed he told me, sell all his guns except the Ruger, it can't be traced. He had owned it for 30+ years and it is questionable where/how he got it.
steveno
Member
I wonder how many guns that are out there that don't have serial numbers just because they were not required before 1968? I have 2 of them
The Norseman
Member
Ghost Buster's
I have never heard of "Ghost Guns" before that 60 minutes show.
I won't make a GG just because it's not right, and does not
interest me.
I've seen our State Law, it's pretty vauge; you can make firearm items,
they have to be Identified "Made in SD", have to stay in SD, can
NOT be sold to individuals, and definitely can NOT be taken over
State Lines.
Criminals will always find a way to get what they put their mind
to.
Citizens do have to uphold the II Amenment though.
I have never heard of "Ghost Guns" before that 60 minutes show.
I won't make a GG just because it's not right, and does not
interest me.
I've seen our State Law, it's pretty vauge; you can make firearm items,
they have to be Identified "Made in SD", have to stay in SD, can
NOT be sold to individuals, and definitely can NOT be taken over
State Lines.
Criminals will always find a way to get what they put their mind
to.
Citizens do have to uphold the II Amenment though.
Attachments
Oh boy he sure did
Sadly 75% of the people who saw his press conference, will believe him, and that is the real sad part.
keith44spl
Member
Believe it or not !
I do not.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq1TXEE_QK4[/ame]
.
I do not.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq1TXEE_QK4[/ame]
.
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Grayfox
US Veteran
Consider the source. CBS & 60 Minutes. Quite possibly the most liberal, anti-gun and bias news organization on the planet. They never let facts get in the way of good sensationalism as long as it fits their agenda. 
"Ghost Guns" are not really a problem
As someone has already said, A LOT of guns are untraceable even with serial numbers....ask me-the CSI guy. I have seen and taken custody of pistols and rifles by the hundreds with no way to trace ownership. Most are family pieces which pass with no records while some are sold person to person (perfectly legal in my state). Most guns used in crimes are stolen from law abiding citizens but many are not on the data base as "stolen" due to the owner who lost the gun not knowing the serial number. I have taken temporary custody of two AR style rifles with no serial numbers due to exparte orders. No serial numbers because they were made from 80% receivers. The property sheet was a pain but the guy got his guns back later (he did a nice job on them too.)
As someone has already said, A LOT of guns are untraceable even with serial numbers....ask me-the CSI guy. I have seen and taken custody of pistols and rifles by the hundreds with no way to trace ownership. Most are family pieces which pass with no records while some are sold person to person (perfectly legal in my state). Most guns used in crimes are stolen from law abiding citizens but many are not on the data base as "stolen" due to the owner who lost the gun not knowing the serial number. I have taken temporary custody of two AR style rifles with no serial numbers due to exparte orders. No serial numbers because they were made from 80% receivers. The property sheet was a pain but the guy got his guns back later (he did a nice job on them too.)
And here I thought I already said that above, but not with as many words.
keith44spl wins the short description with
"Well now,
Let's trace that serial numbered gun....
Manufacturer to wholesaler to retailer and first sale on a 4473.
Which could very well be the End of the Trail."
To me it is amazing how many people don't get what really happens with the FFL and the 4473. I bet over 90% of gun buyers think a gun is "registered" when a FFL sale is made.
My main FFL guy is a small time dealer and he told me that a BATF guy took a brief look at his book only once in all the time he has had an FFL.
If you check around they haven't got a clue how many complete manufacture ARs are out there. They just know it is millions. About 8 million is considered a good "guess"
According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, there are roughly 638,000 machine guns in circulation in the United States. They could get that with the stamp program. I wonder how many unregistered full autos there are.
keith44spl
Member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On the NFA goods.........
The deacons were cleaning out the attic in a south Texas church and came across a
Thompson in an old duffel bag....Jest wonder how many more are cached away?
.
On the NFA goods.........
The deacons were cleaning out the attic in a south Texas church and came across a
Thompson in an old duffel bag....Jest wonder how many more are cached away?
.
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