Hello and thank you all for having me here! Ive bought/collected a lot of this old military surplus and had a question about asbestos dangers in this gear. I feel this will be a particular important thread because it could possibly save peoples lives from dangerous asbestos fibers. All of you Im sure are at least aware of the dangers of asbestos and most of it has been banned (NOT ALL) in most countries. However lots of old Cold War era Soviet Bloc stuff can be highly questionable.

My question today is does anybody have any knowledge or experience in any of this military surplus and know what to look for that could possibly have asbestos in it? What is in question today is this Cold War Era Soviet Bloc jacket. The liner in particular. Its a Hungarian Army jacket M65??? (not sure exactly) with an outer and inner liner. From what I gather its from the 70s to 80s time frame and cant find much info on it from the surplus supplier. Ill add pictures if im able to for you to see below.
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Im only aware of the Cold War Era gas mask cartridges containing asbestos and also fire retardant clothing from WW1 and 2. Thats all that I know to watch out for on the used military surplus market. If any of you are aware of ANY surplus that has asbestos in it please post your comments below. Any help would be greatly appreciated and potentially save peoples lives. Thanks!

Military surplus that I am aware of that may still contain asbestos are any vehicle with what appears to be cloth wrapping around hot pipes. Asbestos was commonly used in the marine industry, especially in the era of steam. I ran across asbestos cloth wrapped plumbing while working on an old tugboat. Asbestos was also commonly used in the engine or mechanical business anywhere there was an exposure to heat and a gasket found to be necessary. Common uses were for exhaust manifold gaskets, large and small engine. As far as clothing it was used in foundry aprons with regularity, foundry clothing could all be suspect to containing asbestos. Military clothing that could be suspect would be fire suits, before the advent of Nomex. Its fairly easy to recognize, once you've seen it. If something you have is suspect, open up a seam and check. It would be layered in between an inner and outer fabric layer. I also ran into asbestos wrapped pipes on a Daimler armored car, it had a Rolls Royce six cylinder motor and was designed to operate nearly under water, all of the electrical ran through conduit, all exhaust was wrapped with asbestos to prevent inadvertent injury while working on it hot. Before they realized it was dangerous it was the absolute end all when it came to heat resistance that could be worked into a cloth and made flexible. That old tugboat had it wrapped around the huge smokestack down in the engine room, single cylinder Budda engine had about 2" of asbestos fabric wrapped around the stack going up through the cockpit, from what I remember we didn't pay any special attention to it. It was still in use during the waning years of the steam industry. My father in law working in shipping, I noticed the wrapped steam pipes and asked if it was asbestos, he said "What else would they use?" Care must be taken I suppose and I am sure that as long as you don't go cutting it up and throwing it around it is relatively safe, its the fact that someone must be accountable all the way through the cycle...you don't go grinding on asbestos brake linings the way they used to.

Thanks for that some good useful info there! The outer jacket feels to me like canvas heavy cotton like you would see in old school denim jeans. The inner liner I have no idea. Probably cotton but Im not sure??? The outer liner material feels like cotton to me. Does asbestos lined fabric have a certain feel or look to it??? Thanks for the help!

From what little I know I don't think asbestos is a problem until it becomes breathable. Fibers or powders that become airborne when it's cut or abraided are the issue.

I went to the school that had the most asbestos abatement in the state of Tennessee and read up on the topic a little.

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I probably know less than sheepdawg, but do have some experience in asbestos remediation. He is correct that the danger comes when asbestos is airborne.

Which I suppose could happen if there was an asbestos component of old military clothing. Unlikely in my opinion.

Back in a previous career, I went on a tour of an abandoned asbestos mine in Alaska. Stuff was everywhere. We were assured by the guides that there was no risk for the reasons sheepdog explains.

Asbestos in products was largely eliminated in the US about 1975. If you live in a house built before then there probably is some in your house. Most people are not aware of that.

If you have a newer home with a forced hot air furnace your ducts are probably uncovered galvanized sheet metal. If your home is older and has a gravity furnace with the insulated big round ducts in the basement, the duct covering is probably asbestos.

If your house was built before about 1975 using drywall, the joint compound probably has asbestos in it. If you have an older house built with lath and plaster, the plaster most likely has it.

If you are not sure and want to hang a picture, pound in a nail, don't drill a hole for a molly. Paint over the walls or put up wallpaper, just don't open up a wall.

Probably many gazillions of dollars were spent (wasted) to remediate old schools, when they could have simply encapsulated the areas and sealed the bad stuff in forever.

I don't have any idea about clothing, but when in doubt throw it out.

Off the top of my head, the only military clothing that would have asbestos would be the gloves/mittens that were issued to change machine gun barrels.

The most likely place to find asbestos and toxic chemicals is going to be surplus gas masks - the filters specifically. I'd be wary of any NATO filter made before 1980s and Combloc filters made before 1990 - especially the canister type. Remember, the gas masks and filters were used to deal with the IMMEDIATE threat and mission completion - long term effects were not considered. For display or collecting, I wouldn't worry about it - just don't cut one open or wear one.

Also, some of the older military surplus personal hygiene products like talcum power may/likely/probably be contaminated by asbestos.

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Thread Killer.

Asbestos is perfectly safe until it becomes breathable.
Much like bubble wrap from China-perfectly safe until you start popping the bubbles and the contaminated covid air gets out and you breath it.

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Forum consigliere

Mitts for changing M-60 barrels definitely had asbestos, and were still in
use in early 80s in US Army.

AFA asbestos in NBC masks--never heard of that, and don't know why
they'd put it in a filter.

The whole mask would melt before the filter approached temps that
required use of asbestos for heat resistance.
would need that much heat resistance.

Asbestos in gas masks wasn't used for heat resistance, it was used as a filter medium. Asbestos is an excellent filter medium. It was even used in cigarette filters in the '40-50s!

The issue is when it breaks down over time along with the other chemicals in the filter - like chromium. That's what makes them a danger.

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Thread Killer.

Don't get me started... I was stationed on a couple of destroyers (DD717 & DD727) back in the early 70's and had the not-so-great experience as an Electrician's Mate, of pulling new replacement wiring over asbestos insulated pipes in the engine and boiler rooms of these old converted (framm-ed) WWII destroyers.

No masks, +100F in the spaces, itched like Hail when I was done, and have wondered ever since about the related cancer popping up. Long story made short, ended up with my 100% disability for other things but still wonder if my lungs will come up short... +68.5 and counting...

Keeping my fingers crossed. ..

I think there’s asbestos in almost everything made before about 1978 . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

The word some are searching for is "Friable", that is it can be crushed and pulverized by hand. Like a sleeping dog, leave it alone and its no risk at all. Non friable can be made friable if subject to extreme measures like building demolition, but for the most part there's no risk to being around it.

Mike, and everyone else If your asbestos exposure was 20 or more years ago and you have not had any effects you very likely never will. I was exposed to a whole bunch of it in the mid 70s. About soiled my drawers a few years back when I had an "abnormal" chest X ray. Spots on my lungs. I have had 4 cat scans since and spots are staple, but, one thing my Pulmonary Dr did tell me that any bad effects from the asbestos would have shown up in the first 20 years after the exposure. I am now back to 1 chest X-ray a year.

Back in the 70s when I was in my 20s there was a product used in oil drilling mud called Visbestos. Powdered asbestos and it was mixed in with the drilling fluid to enhance its ability to lift fine cutting from the hole. For over days at a time spreat out over around 6-8 months I mixed 8 50# sacks of it into the mud in a small shack with no repository protection, and did stuff like eat my lunch and stuff while doing it. Yes, there were cautions on the bag, but nobody paid any attention to those. I was lucy that it never effected me.

another source of asbestos is brake pads and clutches. Transite roofing and siding etc.

Thanks everyone for contributing. There is already one person that didnt know about asbestos in old military NBC filters so this thread is already doing good things. I did hear of womens jackets imported in the USA sometime in the late 70s I think that were found to have cloth with asbestos woven into the fabric so it does look possible that military jackets could have asbestos in it. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again everyone!

My dad had asbestos exposure when he was a carman with ATSF. He said that they bricks of asbestos that they would have to break up by hand, no PPE, and mix with grease to pack bearings and such. This was in the 50s -70s.

I knew my dad had exposure as he was involved with a class action suit long before they started advertising the suits on TV - like early 1990s. When he did scans they found the damage - scaring. Even up until the months before he passed, he never had lung problems and the scans showed the lungs were stable, what got him was DLBCL lymohoma - likely from years of solvent exposure.

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Thread Killer.

I can't imagine it being used on an external suit of clothes unless you were working for Red Adair and walking up on a burning oil well....thats a perfect use for the stuff, the heat would still kill you before the fire touched the Asbestos. I could think of it being used for a particular type of work suit where the possibility of getting burnt would be high, then it would probably be layered between cotton cloth outer layer, if you caught fire you would still be protected by the inner layer. As most of the guys mentioned unless your grinding on brake drums, or clutch discs or other mentioned occupations your fairly safe as long as it isn't messed with. In a way its sort of like all of the lead exposure concerns people have. We had a couple range officers take the club to task for hearing impairment, which led to L&I coming in and drilling us for lead compliance, safety meetings, things we took for granted for nearly 100 years. I've been casting bullets and messing around with lead for decades and when they decided to have a few of us tested my limits were almost nil. One of the early lesson I got was never work with boiling lead, keep your temps below 800degrees, wash your hands and everything is kopescetic...I remember smelting down a good sized pot one day, getting sidetracked and suddenly remembering "THE LEAD" I was running it on a large propane burner outside and the pot was bubbling away, I checked the breeze, approached from up wind and shut it down, no problem.
It does have a definite look about it, think fiberglass batting. The stuff is usually light grey or even white and has a woven look.

For that matter fine fiberglass dust is not good for you lungs, nor any kind of sanding dust.

another possible source of asbestos is the old vermiculite insulation. Depending on its source it can have high levels of asbestos in it.

Libby, Montana, is the site of one of America's worst man-made environmental disasters. Toxic asbestos dust from the vermiculite mines that helped the town prosper for decades has killed hundreds of residents, sickening thousands more. Victims continue to surface.

Adding to my asbestos exposure in the early 70's, I already have had another lung disease called Histoplasmosis. I missed 5-1/2 months of my 2nd grade school year back in 1958-59. Even today, my chest X-rays still show the encapsulated Histoplasmosis granulomas in my lungs, that "could" become re-activated. That is why I continue to worry and be vigilant.

click below for more info:
Histoplasmosis: A disease caused by the fungus Histoplasma capsulatum. Most people with histoplasmosis have no symptoms. However, histoplasma can cause acute or chronic lung disease and progressive disseminated histoplasmosis affecting a number of organs. It can be fatal if untreated.

If it is or you suspect it is asbestos. What we do is encapsulate it with something else. You could use a high quality tape or other type of epoxy, fiberglass are some options. To remove it or disturb it is when all the problems arise. If it’s in clothing and such, bag it and seal it. Remember to label it so others won’t come into contact with it by unknowingly. My best friend was a hull technician in the navy for 25 years. He told me it looked like snow in the engine room airborne. He’s gone now a couple years and no one should ever die like he did. Extremely painful to watch.

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Bob
Sic Semper Tyrannis

My Dad worked in an automotive machine shop in the 50s-70s. Back in the earlier days they had dealerships that would send back many sets of brake shoes to be re-lined. After lining the shoes the would need to be arced. Which was grinding the lining to get the radius right. Dad said that the brake dust was so thick in the air you could hardy see across the shop. Everybody in the shop was exposed, and probably exposed their wives, children, etc. by going home with it on their clothes.
Later in life the doctors could tell by listening to his lungs he had been exposed to asbestos.

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I worked in the Coke Plant in a local steel mill from 6/'75 to 9/'84; everything around the coke ovens had asbestos in it. That, plus all the other chemicals still has me worried, but, we made good money for a minute. I suppose I'll just keep my fingers crossed. My MIL died of Mesothelioma. It's a lot of suffering. Hers was in her stomach, not lungs, which I never heard of until then. Where I retired from, we had asbestos awareness training every year. (Pgh Public Schools) The guy told us that anything with ite at the end of it was a form of asbestos. (Kent cigarettes, with micronite filters.) It's still used in a lot of stuff, he said, but somehow it's safe the way they use it. I don't know. Just be careful in handling old anything, as far as building materials, etc.
Good thread!

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Waiting For The Sun.

Another thing to add thats milsurp is the old Bakelite plastic stuff. It was in many things especially home and military products. More than likely it has asbestos in it.

When Bill Clinton became a presidential candidate the Secret Service commandeered my beautiful office at Adams Field and I was moved to a condemned National Guard Armory. After a couple months I was moved out of that place while they cocooned the building for asbestos removal. No obvious health problems yet. I worried more about Agent Orange, blue, red, etc. which was, as luck would have it, manufactured at Vertac, just South of Little Rock AFB, It became an EPA Super Fund site.

Agree. Asbestos is expensive to incorporate in a woven fabric, and would only be used for fire protection clothing. Asbestos is unlikely to be found in other clothing fabrics.
Asbestos Textile Cloths & Garments - Lawsuits, Products & Brands

I was a Navy ship propulsion officer 1968-71, and all the steam and hot water pipes throughout the ship were covered with lagging - asbestos powder mixed to paste with water, packed around the pipes, and then spiral-wrapped with asbestos wool/paper tape, applied by workers called laggers. Clouds of dust came from laggers' spills as they worked, and months of the crew stepping on the huge steam lines in the boiler room wore deep into their lagging.

easiest way I have seen to do a quick fix on exposed asbestos if spray it with contact cement then wrap it with duct tape. The contact cement will keep it from going airborne while your messing around getting it covered. Even if some fibers blow loose while spraying they will have contact cement on the and not go far.

They always used to stick up danger asbestos barricade tape when doing abatement. What always got me about that was just how does the asbestos know how to stay on the other side of the barricade tape. Now days they often build a plastic hooch around the area and hook it to big vacuums so none gets out. . Workers go in in Tyvex suits and full face respirators and come out though a decontamination booth. Refineries are loaded with the stuff. I once worked at the big refinery on St Croix, US Virgin Islands. They told us all the asbestos records were lost in a big hurricane. I envisioned a guy standing at a window tossing them out.

There was a asbestos siding that was used on many houses.

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

Floor tiles, too. All the "world war II" barracks (if you were in
the Army, you know em) had them.

Asbestos Floor Tiles 101: What to Know About this Old Home Hazard - Bob Vila

When I was a teenager, and started casting bullets, my father gave me a pair of military gloves that were lined with asbestos. I assume they were from the Korean War era, as that is when he served.

Wearing those gloves, you could pour a ladle full of molten lead in the palm of your hand without getting burned.

Stupid people tricks aside, they did save me a burn or two while learning to cast.

Larry

"Latency can be as short as 10 years or as long as 50, but the average length of latency for malignant mesothelioma is 35 to 40 years between exposure and diagnosis. A patient’s latency period is impacted by many factors, including age at exposure and duration of exposure."
Mesothelioma Latency Period | When Do Symptoms Appear?

I spent almost three years around a ship's boiler room in the 1960s, including living on the ship during shipyard overhaul when asbestos lagging compound was spilled and blown around by ventilation fans.

I was in my 20's when exposed 50 years ago, and on mesothelioma.com some people are being diagnosed in their late 70s.

Heavy exposure produces asbestosis, an accumulation of mineral dust affecting breathing similar to black lung from coal or silicosis from quarrying.
Mesothelioma is caused by a few asbestos fibers that work their way out of the lung and lodge in the lining of the chest that encases the lungs, called the pleura. It can come from a very light exposure, even second hand from laundering clothing.
Over decades the fibers irritate the pleura, which forms a sheet tumor that is very difficult to strip out.

Probably the worst side affect of asbestos exposure is ignorance and fear. As many have noted, the real danger from asbestos is when it is friable and becomes airborne. I almost hate to post this, but asbestos was extensively used in water distribution piping. It was called Transite, same as shingles on houses. Nobody is digging it up, but nobody is using it any more for fear of widespread panic. There is also a good bit of it in common floor tile as a filler. The only danger is from cutting and sawing it all day long. Fixation in place is usually the best strategy, then careful remediation when time to demolish.

Probably not too far from the truth!
I still work in the automotive field. Years ago one of my many grunt jobs was packing old(core) brake shoes and clutches up to be relined. I probably inhaled a bunch of asbestos.
Now asbestos is verboten AFAIK

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Who are those guys?

I had firefighting gear for years made with the darn stuff..Full containment suits for aircraft firefighting. I still have a pair of gloves we used. use 'em when casting and wife uses 'em putting wood in the stove. At this point in my life I just won't worry about what I can not do anyhing about..Already happened. Heck some firefighting chemicals we regularly came in contact with were as dangerous as the fire. I do try to keep exposure down..but then I get lead levels checked ...but I still use lead..mercury and yes probably have to deal with asbestos containing products. For anyone over 40 or so most have been exposed to asbestos and other even more dangerous chemicals and compounds. Heck as they say too late to close the barn door. Just try to limit exposure going forward and use a little common sense

More than likely gloves for machine gunners. They used them to switch out hot barrels and are completely made of asbestos. I would dispose of all those gloves properly.

I did ARFF in the Marine Corps. What years did you do? When I was in supposedly they disposed of all asbestos suits but I have no idea to be honest. Our proximity suits could of been full of the junk as far as I know. The concern now is the fire fighting foam that we used. I heard it is chalk full of carcinogens and we used the stuff all the time being one of the main FF agents we used.

If your running a set of drum brakes and need to get them relined your only two options are to bed them in while in use, then readjust, or arc them to the drum diameter. I drove city bus for 29 years, the mechanics would purposely send a newly relined bus for me to bed the brakes linings in. I remember coming off the South hill one morning with a full load and total brake fade by the time I got downtown, when I spit on the wheels it sizzled. I would then call in for a bus change outbound and since my route went by the office they would have a bus change waiting all warmed up, I liked doing that stuff, other guys didn't like the stink. I would drag the brakes with the throttle on just to get them done right, the brake guys liked me.

yes, but after 20 years the odds of having serious effects drop off significantly according to my pulmonary Dr. I has been about 50 years since my period of high exposure.

That is true of asbestosis, but not of mesothelioma, for which the average length of latency for malignant mesothelioma is 35 to 40 years between exposure and diagnosis.
Mesothelioma is not a pulmonary disease.

I did aircraft fire fighting along with structural from 1968 to 95. The old protein foam was ok. AFFF was chemical based and was indeed found to have carcinogens...or so I have read and heard. There were other carcinogenics too. Some of the fuels were more than dangerous. We used to have to pump sumps of tanks and fuel trucks to get the fuel to train with. Many days we seemed to have been taking a bath in fuels. Some of the liquids on SR 71s were more than dangerous. . We literally crawled around in fuels. On the structural side some automatic fire suppressing systems would kill you in a few heartbeats, We didn't lose all of our old asbestos gear till the mid to late 70s. On a 5000 gal fuel truck fire I sent a fellow into the fire to hook a cable to the tractor so we could get the driver out so they could "have enough" of the driver to perform an autopsy on. Let the fuel burn till it was gone to keep it from a small stream that ended up in the Chesapeake Bay. That asbestos gear was great for firefighting. Many buildings had a lot of asbestos in them too. FF was a kinda dangerous business I guess. Of the guys I worked with who have passed more than 60% had cancers...including me...luckily I'm still hanging around. There are other FFs here... They can share details.We did fire fighting for years with no airmasks and other safety gear they have now. . Different and somewhat safer these days. Ask Beemerguy