HR 218 Qual again

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Did my HR218 qualification again.

Actually I just went out there to practice. I asked the 2 RO's to run me through the qualification course for practice. They weren't busy. I ended up just doing my qualifications for my semi-auto and revolver.

I used my Hellcat with red dot and 686 4". I'm still not totally used to the red dot. Plus I'm still a wheel gun guy I guess, but the little semi-autos sure do CC easily. I only threw one out with the 9mm but it looked pretty sloppy. I assume I did well with the 686 because they didn't even walk back up to the target. It was an easy course of fire. But it's changing earl next year.

It doesn't sound like it will be possible to qualify with a 5 shot snub soon. It sounds like the close point shooting parts that were 2 shots at a time are all switching to 6 shots and no time for a reload. So you'll automatically lose more shots than you can afford to miss.

I think that change is State mandated although I'm not really at all up on the particulars. Hopefully they will decide to make some accommodation for the 5 shot snubs. I wonder if they're trying to thin out some of us old guys.

I'd even loan out my 686 to any local old guys that need it for a revolver qualification but I'd think most would already have their old duty gun still around somewhere. At least from my S,O. as we had to supply our own. Now they all are required to carry Dept owned 9mm Glocks, 17s or 19s.

Anyhow, I'm good for another year!
 
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This thread reminded me of an ol' LEO who posted every year with pictures about qualifying with his 4" HB.
Another member who seemed to just up and leave. Dabney, maybe?
Excuse the drift, way to go Oink.
 
I always bring my old duty 65 with some magnum ammo and offer the range officers the opportunity to shoot what we used to carry. After we get past the fact there is no safety most of them need coaching in loading / unloading / speed loader. But they all appreciate it.

Edit after reading below posts -
My department only lets you qualify with one gun and recommends you only carry type you qualify with (revolver or semi automatic). We shoot the same course as active.
Be careful that if you are working armed security or such that you comply with your states requirements for armed security carry - in my state HR218 is not applicable for employment.
 
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The statement below if from USCCA and their take on HB218 with regards to qualification. I have always had an issue on something pertaining to law enforcement when it comes to a state by state case. Sometimes I wish they could standardize things to make it more uniform across all states. I understand states rights and all that but, I think law enforcement and what we are trained in and qualified to do transcends the states not that I necessarily want the Feds dictating what we do even though they already do in many facets.

Qualification Training
LEOSA does not define what form the certification must be in and lacks specific guidance on the required qualifications for a certified firearms instructor which results in more issues. Since most states do not issue such certifications, qualification training as required by LEOSA is not consistent between states. There are states that don’t require qualification training after retirement. Some individuals calling themselves certified instructors are providing “qualification training” that doesn’t meet the standards of the state or of the local law enforcement agencies. Certificates issued from this training may not be recognized by the state, resulting in the LEO actually carrying a concealed firearm without a permit. LEOs need to exercise caution when enrolling in a qualification training in a state that does not have a list of certified instructors. As the legislative history, statute and case law make clear, if you qualify on one type of firearm (hand gun, long gun or shotgun), you can carry any firearm of that type under LEOSA. Accordingly, qualifying with a handgun enables you to carry any handgun under LEOSA, be it semi-automatic or revolver. No separate qualification is necessary unless the state or agency has a different qualification standard for it.
 
This is what blows my mind. In NJ, only active duty LEOs can carry hollowpoint bullets. What the frack, I guess that they want FMJs to be carried that will over penetrate and hit other people in certain circumstances. What do they smoke in NJ?

Are There Any Ammunition Restrictions?
LEOSA carriers must only use ammunition not expressly prohibited by federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934. Qualified LEOs and RLEOs are exempt from the prohibitions against carrying hollow-point ammunition that is in force in New Jersey and other locations. However, the NJ Atty Genl letter on 10/12/18 states,

4. Can retirees carry hollow-point bullets, and does LEOSA provide any additional authority outside of New Jersey law to carry hollow-point bullets?
No, New Jersey RLEOs cannot carry hollow-point bullets. N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3(f) states that, with very few narrow exceptions (none of which apply to an RLEO), only active law enforcement officers are authorized to carry hollow-point bullets. LEOSA does not provide any additional authority for an RLEO residing in New Jersey to carry hollow-point bullets because it is impermissible under state law.

5. Generally, what ammunition is acceptable?
RLEOs can generally use any type of commercially available ammunition, so long as it is not hollow-point. Pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:39-17 (effective June 13, 2018), an RLEO may possess and carry a large capacity ammunition magazine which is capable of holding up to 15 rounds of ammunition that can be fed continuously and directly into a semiautomatic handgun. However, pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:39-20 (effective August 12, 2018), any RLEO who carries a large capacity magazine capable of holding up to 15 rounds must separately register the firearm with the New Jersey State Police.
 
So, is ammo like Hornady's Critical Defense with it's Flex-Tip considered hollow point in New Jersey?
 
There were around 40 of us at the last qualification. It usually happens around the first week of April. We had one retired lady detective who shot the only gun she ever carried, a S&W model 60 with a pinned barrel. She was the only one shooting a revolver. She passed away earlier this year so it will probably be all autos at the next meet. My last duty weapon was a Glock 22 40 cal, which I still have, and have used for qualifications for the last few years. The PD feeds us well with a fish fry after the shooting is over.
 
In Ohio, the LEOSA guidance provided by OPOTA mandates a separate qualification for semi-auto and for a revolver. However the course is only 8 rds total for each type of weapon. While only required to qualify once each 12 months. I generally try to take advantage of qualifications at different locations about 6 months apart. This ensures that if something comes up and one is cancelled (COVID) or I cannot make it for some reason, I am still good for another 6 months. I always qualify with my most commonly carried semi-auto (previously Micro 1911 45acp, currently CSX) and either a M649 or Ruger LCR.
I also carry the state, county Sheriff issued CCW permit (good for 5 years and at no cost for retired LEO's) as that allows me to purchase firearms by just filling out the 4473 and avoid having to wait for a NICS check at those locations that follow that allowance.
 
I’ve been retired for good for almost seven years and I’ve never gotten around to doing a LEOSA qualification. I probably should but I do have a CPL issued by the local Sheriff (who supports 2A, he’s a good man).
 
The worth of doing LEOSA qualification may vary by what you do off-duty or retired. I do it for multiple reasons, although I can't really travel now and the odds of me going to truly hostile areas (NJ, for one) are darned slight.
 
I find it interesting (and perplexing) at how the states interpret LEOSA qualifications. Some regard firearm type as distinguishing between auto or revolver while my state simply qualifies you to carry a "handgun". Qualify with a semi-auto or revolver and you're covered for both.

We do have to shoot the same course of fire to the same standard as full time officers.
 
BTW, and this sounds like a nitpicky lawyer: Let's cite it correctly, either as LEOSA or 18 USC 926 (b) or (c), depending on whether one is active or retired. The HR 218 citation was out of date the moment the act was passed.
 
Our LEOSA qualification conducted by our department is the same course as active-duty officers. It is not easy. Showing up with a snubby, micro pistol or the like, that you may actually carry as a retiree, means you will have a tough time with the course, if you are a very good shot, or not pass and have to shoot it over, if you are less. even some active-duty officers have had to shoot it over.

Of course, It is hard to complain when LEOSA retirees are exempt from some of the firearm restrictions in our state, such as magazine capacity limits.
 
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It is too bad that they went to six shots, which will be the end of the little J frames, that a lot of us use.

I don't think that S&W will see a need for a new M52 "Magnum" pistol,
so those of us that hold tons of 38 special ammo, will still be good to go.

I can see the problem of tossing a Q/L of 38 ammo to another officer, if they have a pistol in their other hand.

As Festus would say, "Mathew, I done seen it com'n" down the line.
 
North Carolina requires LEOSA to shoot the same course of fire as active duty LE. ALSO, NC requires qualification with each weapon you intend to carry, not class/type of weapon. We have to qualify with the exact weapon we will carry, by serial number.

As I usually keep an SBR in my vehicles I qualify with them under LEOSA as the federal law states weapon, not specifically handguns. Obviously I don't carry the SBR's concealed, but I err on the side of caution and do the required qualification with them. (Sig Rattler, 300 Blk and B&T TP9, 9MM)
 
Puller said:
So, is ammo like Hornady's Critical Defense with it's Flex-Tip considered hollow point in New Jersey?
Click to expand...

It wasn't. When they specifically ban hollow point, that leaves other designs of expanding bullets. At one time, Federal made an expanding FMJ. Cor-Bon made a bullet with a round ball at the tip of the hollow point that was legal. They now use that general design in their Urban Response line.
 
Doug M. said:
...Let's cite it correctly, either as LEOSA or 18 USC 926 (b) or (c),...
Click to expand...
OK, you're correct. I'll go with LEOSA, the other option is too long. However, referring to the qualification as HR218 is pretty common, almost universal.
 
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My re-qual for LEOSA will come up this March. I refer to it as the 'AARP Pistol Course'. Fun to watch the kneeling position of firing the course. Some guys take longer to get up than they did to fire that string of rounds!

My department is so terrified of liability they would never consider allowing retirees on their range for something like this.
I use an Instructor at a local community college that teaches BLET and he runs retirees through the course at a nice local indoor range.
I asked him when a portion of the course of fire will involve the mandated use of a walker, but said he wasn't sure. ;)
 
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