Dental Care Costs Here vs There

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I have a Medicare Advantage Plan that includes $1000 a year for dental care. While at 71 I have all my original teeth, I also have periodontal disease which necessitates occasional deep cleaning into my gums. So, while my teeth felt okay, I visited a dentist last summer in Oregon and asked for deep cleaning.

The dentist's assistant x-rays me and deep cleans 1/4 of my mouth. Dentist drops by, looks at the X-rays, says in addition to the deep cleaning I have two cavities and need two caps.

I say, "Ballpark, what's that gonna run me?" He says not to worry, his admin staff will give me a complete, detailed written estimate. They do.

The estimate shows that to deep clean my teeth, the original mission, costs $250 per 1/4 of my mouth, so $1000 for my entire mouth. It shows my insurance covers $1000, but since I had whatever, x-rays?, it's only gonna cover about 3/4s of the cleaning cost so I will be on the hook for $250.

The cavities and caps, however, will run me well over $3000.

I tell the dental office to finish cleaning my teeth this year (2023), and I'll hold off on the cavities and caps until next year to see of I can get better dental coverage. I return a couple more times over the summer to finish getting my teeth cleaned. In early September, the dental office sends me a bill for ~ $700 saying the insurance company says they will only cover $250 for the deep cleaning of one quarter of my mouth.

I call the insurance people and they say, "Yes, indeed," they only will cover deep cleaning 1/4 of my mouth per year. I say, "So if I want my entire mouth deep cleaned that'll take me four years?!" They say, "Yes." I say, "But what about the $1000 coverage?" They say, "Does not cover more than one deep cleaning per year..."

I ask my medicare insurance broker to look for better dental care for 2024. She finds one with $4K per year coverage, BUT, with it I am not covered by insurance when I travel, plus some other drawbacks, so I pass.

I send the dentist a polite letter in late September. Essentially I explain I am unhappy with him because he said I would get an accurate estimate as to costs, and while his staff gave me a detailed estimate which I acted upon, they now tell me I owe ~ $700 because when they called up the insurance company, the company denied the claim. I point out they should have called the insurance company to confirm before giving me the estimate. This is a disservice to patients, I tell him.

I tell the dentist I will pay the bill, but I want him to acknowledge by phone, email or letter that he has personally read my letter. No response. After a month, end of October, I mail, without comment, the dental office a check for the ~ $700 they say I owe. I'm no deadbeat, even though I feel ripped off.

In early December I come back to Japan for the holidays. I visit a dentist here, one I used for many years while I lived here. I explain I no longer have Japanese national health insurance, but will pay out of pocket. He recommends that I get national health insurance, even if only temporarily, because it is much cheaper. Out of pocket I will have to pay 10X the insured cost. I say, no — Im no longer a taxpayer here, and I don't like feeling I am taking advantage of the system — I'll pay out of pocket.

The Japanese dentist x-rays me, finds one cavity which he fixes at first visit with a temporary filling, and on the next with a large filling made from a mold of the resultant hole in my tooth. He also deep cleans my teeth, entire mouth, again, doing a far better job, and then, on a final visit, polishes/cleans the surface of my teeth. This takes place over three visits of an hour each, over a month, the dentist himself doing all the work. My last visit was today.

Total cost, all in, three visits, at ten times the national health insurance rate: $145.

Meanwhile, just before Christmas, a letter from my Oregon dental office is forwarded to me over here. It's dated end of November. It's written by the dental clinic's office manager. It's a polite letter. She apologizes for the faulty estimate, says she has chastised those responsible and will ensure it does not happen again, returns my check, says my account is marked paid up, says they would never want to lose a customer over such a mistake, and asks me to return for further treatment in January.

I think about this for a while, and then mail her a letter back. I explain that I appreciate her courteous letter, have had my teeth treated in Japan at a much more reasonable cost and hence do not require further treatment for the time being. I also explain that I am keeping the check, as I think her practice can afford it, but that if she personally faces any reprisals, e.g., a paycheck deduction, to please contact me and we'll work something out.

Quite an eyeopener.

I think for as long as I am able to travel back and forth between Japan and the US, I'm just gonna get my dental care done over here.
 
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I had lesser experiences with the 'expensive' dental clinics in Manila in the upper-crust EDSA Shangri La Mall. A substantial repair of a broken off filling at a corner of a molar was $32 in 2018. It's still fine - the dentist there went to dental school in California.

In Bosnia (Sarajevo), a very large filling removal and repair at an Embassy-approved dentist was $25 in fall, 2020.

Medical & dental costs are expensive in the US because the USG allows the huge ripoff. It's just not that way anywhere else. Anywhere.
 
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I'm passing this on to my gf in WA, who has had similar bureaucratic nightmares with her medical coverage in general, although she's partly covered by the University.

Last fall Kaiser upped their rates and she's been going through bureaucratic hell trying to find new providers and to figure out who covers what for various services. The office staff at one old medical office and the new one were utterly clueless- she had to tell them what was what as the right hand didn't know what the left middle hand was doing.

She has often spent a couple of hours on the phone - largely on hold - trying to speak with someone above the "deer in headlights" level who could answer even a basic question correctly.

We have universal health care up here, but it has its own set of problems- partly "too many cooks" and low/middle management, as well as a dire shortage of doctors. My doctor is in his mid 70's and still happy to be in the game but when he retires ...???

Sandra & I are still in good health but are not looking forward to getting really old :eek:
 
go to any medical care practice in the US. Look at all the people there. How many are actually providing direct care to the patients? That, malpractice ins, and medical insurance companies are the problem.

Many of those not actually providing care to the patient are dealing with paper work. The majority of which is in relationship to that pesky insurance. If they don't have the paper work just right the insurance company will deny payment.

Notice all the places where people got good dental services for a decent cost were cash on delivery. No insurance or insurance department, no billing department.


Dental Services in 2022 - $165.3 billion

Private health insurance alone sucked in $1.3 trillion in 2022
Medicare was $944.3 billion and Medicaid was $805.7 billion for the government spending 1.75 trillion
The total works out to over 3 trillion bucks
The VA another 104 Billion.
Medical malpractice insurance tossed another 56 billion into the kitty

Now you understand why it cost so much.
 
The R's verses the D's, or vice versa, which WE elect are for the greatest part LAWYERS. And they constantly and continually grow rich while in "government service". And we allow it and encourage it by rewarding them with decades of employment and royal perks. Lawyers, by trade and by nature, seek to find every hole and crack and omission in the law to force the doubt of original intent to the point where it's meaningless in service of their client's perceived 'best interests'. And there's the rub . . . when the clients (US) argue amongst ourselves to bend the law to our point of view and elevate that to the highest consideration . . . this is what we get.

That's the bottom line. The reason we don't have a reasonable national health care standard is because we convince ourselves that it's evil socialism and fear it because if a bunch of peasants in a third world country can become oligarchs by seizing power, how much more so and how worse will it become when you allow the current powers that be the abandonment of any checks and balances at all that we try to maintain under the current arrangement.

My father, a poor man with only a high school education who labored all his life as an industrial electrician had an observation/saying . . . "Them that has . . . gets." The deck is stacked and though they make a pretense of allowing us a seat at the table, we don't get to deal and the cards are marked.

This thread struck a sore nerve with me since I just got an estimate for dental work for around fifteen grand. Most of that, almost all of it, would be out of pocket. I don't know what the solution is, but can pretty much guarantee that if there is one we won't allow it implemented because the system is rigged. We've grown too large and unwieldy as a voting populace to reach a real consensus that isn't manipulated by professional propagandizers in service to lawyers in politics. We're (as a people) too easily turned by every wind and wave as we've allowed sloth in the education system to dumb down the body politic so they are easily controlled. It defies common sense that in our lifetime where free basic education is available to all, communication is instantaneous and omnipresent, and we have opportunity and resources only imagined in the Founding Father's time that the people of their era had more gumption and made better decisions in governing themselves than we do today.
 
go to any medical care practice in the US. Look at all the people there. How many are actually providing direct care to the patients? That, malpractice ins, and medical insurance companies are the problem.

My good friend, "the Doc" had a family practice in a thriving neighborhood, billed out in excess of $1.5 million/yr. 14 people in the office, 5 "medically related" jobs. Today, in his '70's, he is the "medical director" for 5 area nursing homes. Works 4 days a week, no "on call" (they call him incessantly anyways), company pays all his insurance, benefits etc. He gets flat $1K/day and says "I have never had more money." I guess "success" is defined differently in "modern America." Joe
 
I once had a very good dentist who quit his practice and became a civilian dentist for the Army. He says he comes out better. No office rent, no office help to pay, no malpractice insurance to buy, and he gets good pay, all other government employee benefits, and health coverage for his family. After 20 years he is still there.
 
My work changed insurance plans on dental to Delta Denial. My dentist office ran the numbers and found no case in which being a member doctor paid him more than being a non member Dr. Somethings just aren't right.
 
I once had a very good dentist who quit his practice and became a civilian dentist for the Army. He says he comes out better. No office rent, no office help to pay, no malpractice insurance to buy, and he gets good pay, all other government employee benefits, and health coverage for his family. After 20 years he is still there.
He's got it made. He just doesn't have to deal with the bureaucratic horsepuckey, and may live longer due to the lack of stress :)

Mind you, ultimately it's all paid for by the taxpayer... There's no free lunch (Just less indigestion :))
 
My dentistis told me that deep cleaning is from the cause of not using my tooth brush correctly or oftem enough.

One needs to brush in the morning and at bed time, at the minimum.
 
My daughter is a dental hygienist who doe deep cleaning. I know what her office charges. You need to look for another stateside dentist.
 
I am 73 years old and have gone to the dentist every year since I could remember. The dentist or hygienist have cleaned my teeth every time and has never mentioned "deep cleaning". What is it? I have never heard that term before. My yearly visit is now up to $230. Dental insurance would cost me approximately $400 a year.
Just curious;
Mike
 
I have most of my dental work done overseas, usually in the Philippines. There's an ultra-modern office in the mall, two minutes from my Manila condo. Although I have good, international coverage, I pay out of pocket.
Would get my teeth cleaned every three months. Never an appointment. If there was no one in the waiting room, I'd stop and get 'em cleaned.
$30 for complete, deep cleaning and x-rays.
$20 to re-cement a crown that came off while in the USA.
$500 for a new crown.

Much cheaper away from the mall. No hygienest, the dentisit does it all.

The 50/50 deep cleaning is a huge freaking scam. Knock off all the barnacles in one visit and send me on my way.
 
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Of course dental work is cheaper in Japan. Most things are cheaper overseas. Hyundai Kia, Yugo anybody?????
 
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