I have an old (English-made) Record Nº5 4" vise that works well but the jaws are badly worn. I ordered replacement jaws on Amazon, but the problem is getting the old jaws off. They are secured with slot-head screws but I can't get the screws out.

I've tried applying Kroil overnight, heating with a propane torch and letting cool, tapping with a punch to loosen, and lastly, an impact screwdriver which I ground a tip to the right thickmess, so I'm pretty much out of options and thinking that my last recourse may be to (carefully) drill them out with a slightly smaller bit, maybe just down to the threads in the body at first so I can knock the jaws loose.

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

Drilling is your best option at this point. You want to get the drill bit started as close to center as possible. Just drilling off the heads is the best plan so you don't mess up the threads.

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protocalldesign.com

Liquids are never "stuck."

You might want to find someone w a acetylene torch set. Poss pay a little to let them get it hot enuf to turn the screws loose. I believe you need more heat to loosen them. Propane not hot enuf. You could buy a small Mapp gas (cheap cost ) small torch that's a
bit hotter than propane that may work better. Then
try the welding shop last. They will come out..

I have a MAPP gas turbo torch (actually MP Pro now that MAPP hasn't been made for 15 years) and I might be able to heat it enough, but there's a lot of cast iron behind the jaws. A neighbour up the street has oxy-acet. so I could have them apply some serious heat.

But I think I'll try drilling them out first. Can't do the dynamic jaw in the drill press as it's too tall, so I'll just have to mark very carefully and go slow. I have good drill bits, including cobalt so I should be OK as long as I can get a good start.

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

You might try the Kroil again and try just tapping around the screw to set up vibration to wick the Kroil in. Repeat every couple of hours for a day or 2.

BTDT, alas. You KNOW something is stuck when Kroil doesn't loosen it!

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

I've been at muffler shops that make super fast work of stuck studs all the time, they have the expierance to do it correct and quick!!

Ivan

They probably use a compressor-driven hammer/driver. A neighbour has one but the screws are too small.

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

If you use a large drill bit you could drill the heads off and remove the jaws. You then are closer to the stuck threads. Kroil, superzilla, or seafoam and heat using vice grips to loosen the screws. If you break them you are onto drilling and retapping.
Good luck.
There is always milling them in place.

You could also plug weld a nut onto the head of the screw. Then you could use a box end wrench to unscrew it. The heat of welding plus the extra leverage of the end wrench will probably get it. A Mig welder works best for this if done right, but Tig or stick will work too. Let the welds cool completely before attempting to remove the screws.

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protocalldesign.com

Use the neighbors O/A setup and get the old jaw and the vise head itself good and hot..heat the vise head not the screw itself
Stay off of the screw itself directly as it;ll heat to red hot quickly and in that state the metal is extremely soft and pliable.
You can twist the slot right out of the head or the head right off of the screw very easily.

Then you are going to have to drill whats left of the stubs out and drill & tap for new screws.


??...Do the new jaws have screw attachment holes that are in the exact same placement positions as the originals?
If they are not, then go ahead and remove these old ones by any means needed as you will have to D&T for the new ones anyway.

Had the same problem years ago.

I used a stubby flathead screwdriver.

I put the flathead in the vise and closed it partially. I then put a couple of large washers on the handle end of the stubby so I could close the vise for pressure and turn the stubby with vise grips.

I applied Kroil the day before.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

There are no threads in the jaw. That's a thru hole. Threads are in the vice.

Thanks for all the ad-vise. Lots of options. I decided to ry drilling the screws out enough to get the jaws off and so far, so good. Now all that remains is to get the remains of the screws out. Now that the screw stubs are exposed, I'm going to let Kroil do its thing for a day or so.

I was able to put the stationary jaw in my drill press. Being slot-head rather than Phillips, and a couple being somewhat mangled, they were a little more difficult to centre punch to start drilling. I ended up using a 1/4" carbide bit from my die grinder to start the hole, initially a tapered one then a ball-end, followed by a 1/4" cobalt drill, then a 3/16". After that I was able to knock the jaws loose with a cold chisel. Those screws were pretty well rusted in.

The dynamic jaw wouldn't fit in the drill press so I had to drill freehand but it still turned out OK. I omitted the 3/16" bit as I realized I only had to drill the flat head off the screw and not go down to the base of the jaw.

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

Rapping on the screw shanks will help the Kroil penetrate and break up the rust bond.

Check that the screws aren't exposed on the back of the vice. I have a vice that has the screws riveted on the back.

Another possibility is someone might have been welding on something clamped in the vise and was grounding through the vise. That might have welded the screw threads.

Nope- they're just plain "stuck" although the jaw plates were a bit bashed up. The guy I got the vise from was a welder but -perhaps due to having been raised in post-war Britain where they had rationing until 1955 - he tended to buy 2nd or 3rd-hand and'or cheap stuff that was kind of beat up. Plus, the welding table to which it's bolted had been sitting outside for a few years before I got it, which no doubt had contributed to the condition of the screws! Fortunately the vise itself is in excellent shape.

Despite having cheap tools, he was a good welder. His partner, my next-door neighbour, bought him a brand-new Miller MIG and a very nice floor-standing VS drill press, but he never used them and she sold them off a couple of years ago.

I hope to get the screw stubs out later this morning, after being treated with Kroil overnight, and receiving gentle tapping, as SmSgt suggested. The new jaws are Irwin (made in China) but will be quite adequate for my purposes. Perhaps not surprisingly there are several firms in the UK who still make replacement jaw plates for Record vises as they were a very respected brand and there are a lot of them still in use.

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

Nope- blighters won't budge Just tried to remove the stubs from the movable jaw and both sheared off, so they'll have to be drilled out. Fortunately it appears the thread is 1/4-20 (likely BSW) rather than something arcane like BA 1, so I can re-tap if I ding the thread. But I'll use a slightly smaller bit which will leave a thin "sleeve" I can pick out.

I may give the static jaw another day of Kroil before tackling it.

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

We had Record vises and tools in the shop where I had my first job. They weren't exactly new when I got there, but they all worked just fine.

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Release the Kraken

"O how the mighty have fallen". I think the old Record UK (C & J Hampton) were made until about 2000, at which point they were bought by Rubbermaid, then Irwin. Several years ago Lee Valley Tools still had a few UK- made ones but they're long gone now.

The new "forrin-made" ones are probably just fine for general use, though, just like the off-shore ones from Yost and Wilton, who also make some in the US, and the prices reflect this. The quality of the casting is what seems to be the main difference and unless they're used hard and/or regularly it probably doesn't make a lot of difference for most of us.

My main vise (vice) is a very heavy un-named 5" one that just says "JAPAN" on it, which I got in a 2nd-hand store for about $50 several years ago. Every once in a while I see an old Columbia or other US-made vise and have been tempted to pick it up "just because". (ie because I like old tools!)

My other next-door neighbour has an Australian-made DAWN vise which I cleaned up for him. I'd never heard of them but I think they're still around and seems to be qood quality.

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

I have used vinegar on rusty tools to dissolve the rust. I restored a very old hand saw this way. Make sure you rinse it good after use.


Another option is to drill out the screw with a bit that has a slightly larger size than the screw threads. Then tap new threads and use a larger screw to attach the new stuff.

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Corripe Cervisiam

I think the screws are beyond remediation now. As to re-drilling & tapping one size larger, that would mean probably 5/16" (or metric ) plus drilling out the jaw plates (which just pass a 1/4" screw) and they are really hard, R58-60 according to the places in the UK that make new ones over there. I'd prob. need cobalt chucking reamers to enlarge them.

I've drilled out one jaw and even the thin fragments of the old screws are being recalcitrant. I may be able to re-tap over them or use a #7 bit to clear out the remnants before retapping. I have to make sure that the new hole/threads are exactly where the originals were, though. I may be able to clamp the old jaw plate in place to act as a guide.

This is more work than I had anticipated, but as long as I learn something useful, it's not time wasted. At least that's what I'm telling myself...

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

One of my vises has the jaws welded in place. Guess why.

Try a left handed drill bit. Available from MSC.

A bit late...I have an old US made vise that I took the jaws off of. They would not budge. Living on a farm I had a fair amount of old engine oil I used to paint the equipment with. Kept things somewhat free. Put the vise in a 5 gal can with a couple gallons of old crankcase oil and hyd oil with a chaser of kerosene. lit some charcoal in an old steel wheel heated it up pretty good for a few days(7). put it on a old granny sack and wiped it off. sucker came apart fairly easily. Quick light sandblast paint oil and together again Still working 40 years later

Finally got the new jaws on this afternoon and the vise back together. Those screws were four of the most uncooperative, ornery bits of metal I've ever put tools on.

I got the screw remnants drilled out and re-tapped, but "due to an over-abundance of caution and too much fussing" the holes on the dynamic jaw ended up a tad too high, and as there is a ledge on which the jaw plate sits, it wouldn't go on. So I had to take about .035" off the bottom of the jaw plate. Since I don't have a milling machine this meant it had to be done a mano, initially with 80 grit on my angle grinder, then with large files, which was pretty time-consuming. (I really like those Skrooz wooden file handles.)








The other jaw was straightforward as I (presumably) had learned something, so I got the remnants drilled out and retapped without problem. The new jaw fit OK and I got the vise back together and bolted to the table.

I think if I ever have to do this again with pooched screws, I'll just mark the center of the old screw and let the hardened jaw plate guide the drill to keep it centered.

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

You do know that Harbor Freight sells vices.

HF and lots of other places. Made "overseas" and OK for most purposes, including mine. But this was an old, English-made Record that I was given and I figured was worth a bit of work - even if it required more work than I expected. Also, it was bolted to the welding table and another vise might not have had the same hole spacing.

Besides, I like old tools and hate to see one in disrepair

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

Congratulations