Space Flight.

Joined
Nov 21, 2006
Messages
1,789
Reaction score
1,713
Location
Southeast Texas
I didn't want to hijack the other threads on the two astronauts stuck on the ISS but I did want to submit something for all of you to think about.

Fact is we are GENERATIONS away from ANY serious space exploration. There is no Enterprise...no Orville...no Discovery. Only very small and very cramped tin cans whose very safety at any given moment is up to debate regardless of who designs or makes it. I hear much talk on a manned landing on Mars as the next big step.

I am not going into Einsteinian theory here but faster than light travel will NEVER be an option for ANY manned flights...period. It is literally the "slow boat to China" for travel even to the nearest planet. Sorry, Trekkies...warp one ain't gonna happen...or even a fraction of it...with a human being aboard.

To even reasonably explore Mars will require a vessel that will have to be as large as a frigate and manned by a very small crew. To cram five or six people on a mission to Mars in something the size of a small house trailer will result in significant problems and conflicts which several million miles out into deep space are going to have tragic potential. Humans are humans...simple as that. No amount of training will compensate for that.

Humans can't survive without gravity long term. Which means anyone going on such a jaunt without it isn't going to be much when they get to their destination. Until "artificial gravity" is invented we're stuck to Eath/Moon area.

Now lets say all of these factors are ignored and Murphy's Law strikes half way. The astronauts are sending out a mayday. At this point, like the astronauts on the space station, there is little anyone can do...except for Mission Control to listen to men and women pleading for help and no way to do so. Some of us have already been through that here as dispatchers. In this case, such audio will be live and on network TV/internet/social media. Public opinion of ANY manned exploration is going to tank considerably.

No. I DO see (and hope) we get an active moonbase in my lifetime. THAT should be the next big step. I believe we are as far as we are going to get with orbiting space stations at this point. We should be looking to put the star and stripes back on the lunar surface and this time for good. With rotations, we could keep a permenant prescence there and any further exploration could use such a facility as a starting point.

This isn't a rant nor is it a subject usually covered on a forum like this, but I hear plans and schemes based strictly on egos without the foresight or preparations needed to go out further. Although I do have a "list" of who should be on the first colonization flight to Mars but won't go into that here!
 
Register to hide this ad
Now lets say all of these factors are ignored and Murphy's Law strikes half way. The astronauts are sending out a mayday. At this point, like the astronauts on the space station, there is little anyone can do...except for Mission Control to listen to men and women pleading for help and no way to do so. Some of us have already been through that here as dispatchers. In this case, such audio will be live and on network TV/internet/social media. Public opinion of ANY manned exploration is going to tank considerably.

Nothing that cannot be fixed without a properly encrypted link and an off switch.
 
As a kid in the 60's, one of the neighbors worked at Ohio State University's space listening arrays. He said the Russians sent a two-man capsule up without enough supplies, and they listened to them slowly die, while begging for rescue.

Several short Sci-Fi stories have covered this.

When they planted our flag on the moon, they left 3 medals to commemorate the Apollo astronauts that died and something like 61 for the Russians. We have added two shuttle crews to out count.

Based on historical performance, this is a tiny body count compared to getting powered air flight or exploring the "New World"! (Just falling Brazil nuts killed how many explorers?) We are humans! We can't not want to do something that is put in front of us!

At some point, either the new technology will be invented, or slow boats will do the job, but The Humans are coming to a star system near you!

Ivan
 
A trivial fact I remember from some Science / Physics class decades ago: artificial gravity is achieved if the space craft is continuously accelerated at 32.2 ft/sec/sec. After 1 year of acceleration, the vehicle is at the speed of light.

This is what I remember, but the time could be much longer. At my age I'll go with foggy memory rather than doing the velocity calculation.
 
Some of the necessary fact are:

31,536,000 seconds in a year.

Speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. 11,160,000 miles a minute, 669,600,000 miles an hour, 16,070,400,000 miles a day. 5,865,696,000,000 a year.

Closest star is about 4 light years away.

My Chevy pick-up can do maybe 90 MPH! I better pack a snack!

Ivan
 
As a kid in the 60's, one of the neighbors worked at Ohio State University's space listening arrays. He said the Russians sent a two-man capsule up without enough supplies, and they listened to them slowly die, while begging for rescue.

Several short Sci-Fi stories have covered this.

That sounds like a twisted version of what happened to Komarov. He knew it was likely coming before he left the ground.

Cosmonaut Crashed Into Earth 'Crying In Rage' : Krulwich Wonders... : NPR
 
FUEL requirment

A trivial fact I remember from some Science / Physics class decades ago: artificial gravity is achieved if the space craft is continuously accelerated at 32.2 ft/sec/sec. After 1 year of acceleration, the vehicle is at the speed of light.

This is what I remember, but the time could be much longer. At my age I'll go with foggy memory rather than doing the velocity calculation.

The amount/weight of fuel required for the acceleration and eventual deceleration is fantastic.

The required math is above my pay grade.

Bekeart
 
Problem is Everything needed forever must be taken along from liftoff. I don’t know if we will ever reach a “meaningful” space destination. And we can’t “guess” at where that might be. I’d rather improve this rock first. Joe
 
We were able....

Ματθιας;142059371 said:
I have one practical question. Who is going to fund this?

Given that our economy is a perpetual war economy, unless there's a military mission attached, it's not going to happen.

We were able to go to the moon along with our long involvement in Vietnam. But our economy, industrial base and expertise was in high gear. Not only is it a strain to fund space projects now, if we keep going the way we are going, it's going to be harder to maintain our military presence for all of the conflicts we are involved in. I honestly believe that our enemies know this and always have a hot spot in the world to keep us tied up. At some point it's going to get more difficult for us.
 
Everything you say is true......

I didn't want to hijack the other threads on the two astronauts stuck on the ISS but I did want to submit something for all of you to think about.

Fact is we are GENERATIONS away from ANY serious space exploration. There is no Enterprise...no Orville...no Discovery. Only very small and very cramped tin cans whose very safety at any given moment is up to debate regardless of who designs or makes it. I hear much talk on a manned landing on Mars as the next big step.

I am not going into Einsteinian theory here but faster than light travel will NEVER be an option for ANY manned flights...period. It is literally the "slow boat to China" for travel even to the nearest planet. Sorry, Trekkies...warp one ain't gonna happen...or even a fraction of it...with a human being aboard.

To even reasonably explore Mars will require a vessel that will have to be as large as a frigate and manned by a very small crew. To cram five or six people on a mission to Mars in something the size of a small house trailer will result in significant problems and conflicts which several million miles out into deep space are going to have tragic potential. Humans are humans...simple as that. No amount of training will compensate for that.

Humans can't survive without gravity long term. Which means anyone going on such a jaunt without it isn't going to be much when they get to their destination. Until "artificial gravity" is invented we're stuck to Eath/Moon area.

Now lets say all of these factors are ignored and Murphy's Law strikes half way. The astronauts are sending out a mayday. At this point, like the astronauts on the space station, there is little anyone can do...except for Mission Control to listen to men and women pleading for help and no way to do so. Some of us have already been through that here as dispatchers. In this case, such audio will be live and on network TV/internet/social media. Public opinion of ANY manned exploration is going to tank considerably.

No. I DO see (and hope) we get an active moonbase in my lifetime. THAT should be the next big step. I believe we are as far as we are going to get with orbiting space stations at this point. We should be looking to put the star and stripes back on the lunar surface and this time for good. With rotations, we could keep a permenant prescence there and any further exploration could use such a facility as a starting point.

This isn't a rant nor is it a subject usually covered on a forum like this, but I hear plans and schemes based strictly on egos without the foresight or preparations needed to go out further. Although I do have a "list" of who should be on the first colonization flight to Mars but won't go into that here!

...but that doesn't mean we should stop trying and innovating. The technology that we gain might not give us warp drive, but surely there will be benefits. And something like a moon base and even a Mars base is not beyond our capabilities. I envision a constant cycle of ships going and coming from the Moon and Mars. If something goes wrong with a flight or on the surface, the next ship will be along to pick up the slack. I also wonder why we can't assemble a very large craft with all the necessary accommodations in earth orbit and blast off from there. I don't see any sense in taking off for Mars from the moon. If we can build a space station up there we can surely build a Mars rocket in Earth orbit.
 
Humans are not going to explore and colonize the Universe. Light at 186,000 miles per second takes 100,000 years to cross our own Milky Way Galaxy.
 
Amongst all his Lucas Davenport novels John Sandford penned a sci fi tale using existing tech evolved over the next 50 years. If your a fan of his writing look for Saturn Run.
Pardon the drift.
 
...

I am not going into Einsteinian theory here but faster than light travel will NEVER be an option for ANY manned flights...period. It is literally the "slow boat to China" for travel even to the nearest planet. Sorry, Trekkies...warp one ain't gonna happen...or even a fraction of it...with a human being aboard.

...

Well, maybe, maybe not.

If we ditch chemical propellants and go with fission engines, We could get to Mars is a few weeks. Fission propulsion is being actively funded now with a test flight slated for '27 IIRC.

NASA, DARPA Will Test Nuclear Engine for Future Mars Missions - NASA

Or, further down the road...

[gr-qc/0009013] The warp drive: hyper-fast travel within general relativity

or

[2403.01828] Investigating the Physical Properties of Traversable Wormholes in the Modified $f(R,T)$ Gravity

It pays to remember two things:
1. Physics isn't "done"; and
2. Never underestimate human ingenuity. ;)

That said, a permanent presence on the moon is the key to exploring the rest of the solar system. (And don't forget all that He3 up there for your fusion reactors). :D

Mars, as of now, is kinda a dog and pony show. Do the moon first then see if you want to go down another deep gravity well.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top