opinions on the browning automatic rifle

One of my late uncles carried a BAR across France, Belgium and Germany in 1944-1945. His infantry division went ashore a few weeks after D-Day, they fought pretty much straight through and he was in Germany for several months on occupation duty after the war ended. He didn't like to talk about it. I learned more about what he had done from some of his army buddies at his funeral. Apparently they were in the thick of things and he wore a few of them (BARs) out.
 
I own a BAR, a Winchester that was converted to 1918A2 specs at some point in time, IIRC the barrel is dated '52; all Winchester BAR's were made in 1918. I love to shoot it, one of my favorite MG's.

The thing to keep in mind about the BAR is by WWII, which was when it saw the most use, it was really obsolete. Yes, it was reliable gun, but it did not have a quick change barrel and was not belt fed. As a squad automatic weapon, it did not hold a candle to the MG42, for example. The later FN-D did have a quick change barrel, but it was still magazine fed. The gas system is also a chore to clean, not a huge issue now, but it certainly was in the era of corrosive ammo.

To an extent, the BAR is still in front line service. The basic action of the FN MAG-58 AKA the US M240, is really just a BAR action turned upside down. Whereas the the toggle action on a BAR cam upward, id goes to the bottom on the MAG-58. The MAG-58/M240 is considered one of the most reliable machine guns in the world, that is a fact, not an opinion. In a nutshell, the MAG/240 is nothing more than an upside down BAR action with a MG42 top cover and a MG42 trigger group. That is a very simplistic description, but that's really what it is.

It was cutting edge technology when introduced, but obsolete by WWII. That said, it is a classic US martial arm. A neat, neat, gun with, IMO, a perfect ROF on its "fast" setting. I need to get out and shoot my BAR, it has been too long.
 
If you really want to know about BARs you should buy the book " Rock in a Hard Place" By James Ballou. There is a picture of John Pepper, the guy who invented Pepper popper targets in the book with a BAR. I have fired that BAR. A lot of people compare BARs to other guns and say they lack quick change barrels or that the magazine is too small. That is all true, but the BAR is a lot older then most of the guns it is compared too. Kind of like comparing a 1955 Chevy to a new Corvette. When the BAR was adopted it was state of the art. I was recently at a range where a BAR, a M1a and an AR15 were all being shot at the same time. The guy with the BAR was shooting off the bipod. The guys with the M1a and AR15 were shooting off of front barrel rests and sand bags. At 100 yards the guy with the BAR could put 20 rounds down range into a little bigger group then the other two rifles. But a whole lot quicker. If you ever get a chance to shoot a BAR you should jump on it. I think the BAR is an extremely neat gun and I love shooting it.
 
RdrBill said:
It is an automatic rifle capable of controlled full auto fire. Capable of long range fire. It is a capability currently lacking in USMC weapons.
Bill@Yuma
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Something recognized by the Marines, who keep threatening to adopt another automatic rifle, along the lines of the Chartered Industries of Singapore "Ultimax".
 
I talked to a WWII vet onetime about how his buddy handled the recoil of the BAR. He found a short piece of cable and a stirrup from a saddle, tied the stirrup to the barrel and would just drop the stirrup to the ground, stand on it, and fire away!
 
I got to fire an FN D at the old Second Chance Bowling Pin Shoot.
It's one of the MGs I wish I had ponied up the cash to shoot again.
Another is the Browning M2.
 
eye for an eye..............

Dusty Miller said:
Yeah, it was Clyde Barrows favorite gun for killing cops. The savage animals got what they deserved (Bonnie & Clyde, not the cops), its too bad they died so quickly.
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Live by the sword, die by the sword.............
 
J. W. said:
There is an old Marine in my family that is quite fond of the BAR. He carried one into combat for 3 years across the Pacific in WWII. He always speaks of the rifle with fondness. He told me that he often wonders how many men he killed with it during that time.

Cyrano, you're right on. My Great Uncle is a small man, about 5'5". I can imagine that back in his youth he probably didn't weight much more than 160 pounds.
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My uncle also toted one during his scenic tour of the South Pacific Islands, courtesy of the Second Marines. I'm guessing he may have been selected for the assignment because he was pretty tall and fairly muscular. (I think he was also pretty enthusiastic about his service, too. Never heard if he volunteered to carry the BAR. He did carry a shotgun for a while, but there were problems with the shells getting wet.)

My father invested in a Swedish BAR out of interest in the gun his older brother carried. I've only shot it once, and it's quite a different experience waiting for about 3 1/2 inches of bolt to run forward after you pull the trigger! The two different rates of automatic fire are also pretty interesting.
 
I fired them for familiarization when I was in high school and college ROTC. These were the late models that were full auto only, but with a reduced rate of fire so that you could fire off single shots by tapping the trigger if you wanted. They were a piece of cake to get on target, as the recoil was mostly absorbed by the automatic action and the heavy weight.

The BAR made a good squad base of fire, placing high-power '06 rounds on target - plenty of penetration and killing power. It could not substitute for a true machine gun, as it didn't have the sustained volume of fire necessary for that job. It would overheat in continuous fire, so it was to be applied sparingly when needed only. The issue 20-round mags limited the effective rate of fire even more, as these had to be changed out often in battle.

Full-auto fire draws enemy fire. The BAR guy would tend to get shot at more in battle, as he was "on stream" longer, and thus more noticeable. The enemy didn't like BAR men and wanted to eliminate them.

Although the BAR had a good reputation for reliability, Korean veterans told us that the BAR (and the M1 and M2 carbines) were susceptible to jamming in freezing weather such as found in Korea ("Frozen Chosin" in particular). The only firearm that could be generally relied on was the M1 rifle, and then only if all lubricants were removed when the temp got well below freezing. The field expedient to unglue frozen guns was to use what expendable liquid God gave you on them.

As a side note, the BARs were heavy, more complex to field strip, and always seemed to be carried by the smallest guy in the squad. Nonetheless, they were greatly appreciated when spot volume fire was needed in WWII and Korea.

John
 
Steave said:
That's a pretty accurate statement, although, I'd say MG42 instead of the BREn. Still, BAR's are a blast to shoot!
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The Bren is a better light machinegun than the MG-42, especially with the non-disintegrating German belts.

As a medium machinegun, the MG-42 is superior.
 
I was out diggin' in the vault earlier and thought I'd throw up a pic of my old BAR, not the best pics in the world, but I never claimed to be a photographer.

IMG_2282.jpg


IMG_2285.jpg
 
Steave, the BAR is super neat, But I gotta say ,having your own Pack Howitzer takes the "super cool" award.
 
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Joe Kent said:
Steave, the BAR is super neat, But I gotta say ,having your own Pack Howitzer take the "super cool" award.
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The Pack is pretty cool, although my wife says it's in her parking spot in the garage! :)

IMG_0723copy.jpg
 
Steave,

As you know, it's true that everything is bigger in Texas, to wit, your comment about checking your "vault". How many guys does it take to open the door on that sucker? It must be huge!

Best regards,

Dave (a proud fellow Texan)
 
As far as WWII goes, I do think the Bren is the best Automatic Rifle, followed closely by the BAR.

When it comes to Medium belt feds, the MG 42 is the best by far...

For a heavy belt fed, the Brownings, 1917 & 1919 are great guns.

When you get above rifle calibres, the Browning 50, ie the Ma Duce is the Holy Grail.
The Browning guns are most rugged...

However, there is a new light weight 50 BMG that does show some promise.

In todays world, the German MG1 [a MG 42 in 308] would be a good choice, the Belgian MAG 58 is a good choice, and I would be happy with a H&K 21 [but I am an H&K Freek], however, I have seen several H&K 21's shot a great deal, with no problems.
 
From what I've read: Much like the Garand, BARs were heavy and not popular for packing around Europe or Pacific or Korea. But when the chips were down, both became the much preferred weapon over other small arms such as the M1 Carbine or Thompson. Nothing reached out like the 30-06.
 
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