Your thoughts on reproduction blackpowder revolvers

I have been thinking of getting a BP revolver for display. I am not really into shooting them. Any advice?

The one I am looking at is an unfired older Navy Arms 1860 Army.

Are there any brands better than others?

Are the Colt repros worth anything?

My thoughts.

Colt repros were made by Uberti and then shipped, as parts, to the States, so Colt could assemble them and call them COLT. They are no better than any other Uberti colt-copy, but they sell for more because they say COLT on them.

Armi San Marco guns need to be avoided.

I would not buy a gun with a brass frame. You say it is for display (not for shooting), and brass frames should be cheaper, but they will not stand up to the pounding of full-power loads. You would either need to down-load 'em or expect them to shoot out quickly.

If it's really just going to be for display, and you won't shoot it, I don't see where it matters WHO made it.

If it was me, I'd buy an Uberti.

Alpo's right. Armi San Marco guns might look good, but I think they heat treat the internal parts with a BIC lighter. I like to stick with Uberti. I waited around and bought an 1860 army and a 2nd Model Dragoon for $275 each on separate occasions. Even if it's just for display you are bound to pick it up when Josey Wales is on and you'll want a reliable one.

There's 2nd Generation Colt C&B and 3rd Generation Colt C&B revolvers.

1st Generation is the original of course.

The 2nd Generation are the ones considered the better quality of the two. Made in the 70's, maybe early 80's.
Still disputed is were the parts were made, here or Europe, but they do say Colt and are of nice quality.
I've even been told that the frames were made here, investment cast by Ruger (Pine Tree Castings ?),,the rest imported from Italy. Assembly and finished at Colt.
The argument is always a lively one.
USFA used some of the Uberti C&B when they first started and polished them all out to perfection and sold them in the white, some in pairs. No markings at all, just a ser#.
I had a set of those and they were beautiful pistols.


The 3rd Generation is the 'Signiture Series'. These don't have the fit and finish of the 2nd's. I understand they were outsourced completely by Colt.
A fellow from NJ came into Turnbulls when I worked there and was from the company heading up making these for Colt. Trying to get a deal on the case coloring,,We didn't end up doing them. I don't know who did.

Just about any NIB revolver would do as a display gun.
Even High Standard marketed some for a while complete w/display box.
Plenty of European made ones around and you're not saddled to a Colt design either.

A brass framed pistol will do OK for shooting. It's not going to disintegrate on you. Plenty of originals were brass framed.
There's good and bad quality repros just as well as originals.

My Ubertis are all great shooters, I highly recommend them.

jaykellogg said:

I have been thinking of getting a BP revolver for display. I am not really into shooting them. Any advice?

The one I am looking at is an unfired older Navy Arms 1860 Army.

Are there any brands better than others?

Are the Colt repros worth anything?

Click to expand...

I had an 1860 Navy Colt. It was .45 in cal. I never fired the thing but loved it. Well, I dont know if they retain or appreciate in value or not? but they sure look and feel great. The one I had-has blued-had brass parts and had walnut grips. Anyway, I bought it when I was 21--and some thief pinched it out of the house when we were out of town attending my Grandmothers funeral.

You might want to send a PM to newby here: Hawkswill--she shoots black powder all the time and can answer your questions.

Uberti , who also makes many Cimarron guns are of excellent quality. I'd have to say most of the reproductions are of better steel and made to tighter specs than the original Colts. The Colt Blackpowder Series from the 70s was supposedly done at the Colt Hartford plant , but the 90s Colt Signature Series was an independent effort. I heard J Jovinos was somehow involved.

I have a Walker .44 from the BP Series , an 1860 Army .44 and 1858 Navy .36 from the Signature Series and an A.Uberti 1858 Remington.

All are excellent fit/finish and are fun too shoot.

Pietta's are OK too.

Don't think Armi San Marco is still in business.

Having fooled around with original Colt percussions (and replicas) off and on for about 50 years now, I have not found the new ones to be anywhere near the quality of the originals. I have had 1st and 2nd gen. Colts, Centennials, and currently have three Uberti percussions (a Walker, 3rd Model Dragoon, and a '61 Navy).

Original guns from that era are now around 150 years old, and finding one in nice shape with minimal honest wear isn't easy (or cheap). But about 30 years ago I lucked into a very, very nice 1860 Colt with a lot of blue, all the cylinder scene, was tight as a tick, and but for one minor spot in the bore, perfect. The difference between the fit and finish of that gun and replicas was like night and day. Naturally I sold it and all I got in return for it was filthy money. But it was a revelation.

I have had that same eye-opening experience with the internals of Shiloh Sharps versus originals. The Shilohs are indeed pretty and do work, but all you have to do is look at the inside of the lock and it's a whole different world. I once had occasion to disassemble a Spencer that had led a very sheltered life. The machining and vivid case colors of the very intricate breechblock were a sight to behold. It was literally a work of art.


Of my Ubertis my favorite was the '61 Navy; very pretty, very well balanced, and an excellent shooter. When the hand spring broke I had to take it down to fit a new hand and spring. Pretty rough in there, and parts durability is just too iffy for me. It's now on retired status and looks great in a fitted case. The Dragoon gets shot infrequently, and the Walker hasn't been shot at all. Their role in life is to look nice and impressive, and they do that very well. If Ubertis were made like that old original 1860 Colt with hand fitting parts of the best steels they would probably cost $1200 and up. Bear in mind, too, that the current Ubertis are probably the best of the import replicas these days.

I have had three Ruger Old Armies, and while they aren't a copy of anything, they are essentially Blackhawks--tough, reliable, and just go bang. They would have sold boxcar loads of them back in the 1860s!

I use to have a number of the Colt 2nd Generation and did well when I parted with them a few years ago.

If the plan is to just look at and display your BP revolver you really might want to go with a Colt 2nd Gen. They are collectable and have increased in value over the years. You can easily find them in new in the box condition. I expect they will continue to increase in value where the other replica likely won't.

These two C-series 1851 Navy Colts were manufactured by Colt at Hartford in 1971. Rumor has it that some work was done with original tooling but the tooling wasn't up to the job. It wasn't long before Iver Johnson was contracted to do the work for Colt using parts supplied from Italy.



This is a 1849 Pocket produced by Colt Blackpowder. There was a lawsuit over the use of the Colt Logo involved in the production of the Signature Series revolvers. Personally I would say the Signature Series and the early 1970s C-Series revolvers had the best fit and finish. The later F-series guns were still great but not up to the others. All seem to better than many of the Italian made replica, with maybe Cimarron doing the best when it comes to fit and finish.

1849 Pocket Signature Series

There are some marketed under the "TRADITIONS" label. I have heard of timing problems, but the 3-44/45's I have do fine. I haven't bought any for 5 or so years but you could find unfired copies of Army's for 1/2 to 2/3 of what they were selling for. People didn't want to clean them so they never fired them. The worst revolvers I ever saw were Navy Arms copies of 1860 Army. They were fine when they left the factory; But they were used buy a local college drama department in plays. Caps were fired in them, and since college professors know everything they weren't cleaned for 3 to 5 seasons of use. The college department head brought them into the store where they were bought with the dated reciept and wanted a refund. It was difficult to convince him that his "students" had abused the guns. Then he wanted to order a new pair and the boss refused saying, he wasn't going to sell guns to people who would only ruin them and ask the professor to leave. When the guy had left I ask why turn down the sale? Boss said the college and students caused so much grief that the $20 he'd make on the deal was worth the thumb in their eye! Ivan

Are the build it yourself kits still available? Most of you older members have seen this before. I thought the fit and finish was superior to store bought guns until I saw the pics by Bill Bates.
Mine was a kind of therapy project that took me about 6 months to finish, going fairly slowly. Timing was a stinker for a newbie! If I remember this kit was about $30.00 back in the late 70's. I gave it to my Dad as a gift and Mom gave it back to me when he died.
Did all the original 1851s have the roll engraving on the cylinder?

RonJ said:

Are the build it yourself kits still available? Most of you older members have seen this before. I thought the fit and finish was superior to store bought guns until I saw the pics by Bill Bates.
Mine was a kind of therapy project that took me about 6 months to finish, going fairly slowly. Timing was a stinker for a newbie! If I remember this kit was about $30.00 back in the late 70's. I gave it to my Dad as a gift and Mom gave it back to me when he died.
Did all the original 1851s have the roll engraving on the cylinder?

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I had one like this too-the only diff between yours and the one I had was the cylinder on mine was engraved (came that way as I guess it was commemorating some special event) had a Stagecoach and horses on it.

jaykellogg said:

I have been thinking of getting a BP revolver for display. I am not really into shooting them. Any advice?

The one I am looking at is an unfired older Navy Arms 1860 Army.

Are there any brands better than others?

Are the Colt repros worth anything?

Click to expand...

I bought a M60 Navy Arms revolver in 1969 or '70. It was the brass frame .44; not a true reprodduction of any original revolver. Mine is still tight, even though it has been fired a fair amount.

If the price is right, go with the Navy Arms 1860.

You want a revolver for just display. There are several members who notice the second generation Colt Blackpowder revolvers.

Personaly I do think that is a good choice. Prices are still good. You can find very nice examples out there. I do like the Colt Navy model 1851.
I do love the elegance of it.

The name Colt is on the revolver instead of Uberti. I do see rather Colt dan Uberti. Even Uberti make some good guns. Quality of Uberti is in some guns questianeble.
Look for example to the forcingcone of a Uberti made Schofield in .45 colt, and you know what I mean.

But, we could give you only advice. It is complete up to you what you like.

In pictures several of my revolvers. Exept the Original Colt US stampt Navy. Wish that was mine to.
The best replica is the Centaure Belgian made Colt model 1860.

You must be watching "Hell On Wheels".

Check Cabelas online, they have several. I just got an 1860 Army by Pieatta. It has not been fired yet because I need some #10 caps, that I should get this week. They also have Uberti's and the best prices I found.
Fit and Finish was good.
Stay away from the unfinished kits, I looked at them at Dixie Gun Works and the cost and time to finish them were not worth the savings in price.

Cabelas has a starter kit with some of their guns and shipping for $5.

About 30 years ago, I owned a CVA Remington 1858 revolver chambered in .44 caliber. I really enjoyed it until I experienced my first "chain fire" and fired 3 chambers at the same time. Wow! That was exciting! I was very pleased that the piece held up to that event without any apparent damage. But that pretty much ended my blackpowder days.

Regards,

Dave

Here's pics of my two:





Mine are "wall hangers" Actually, one is cased with accessories. Washington has a law that you may carry a sidearm IF it is a muzzle-loading sidearm, so these go with me during BP season.Both have been de-blued using naval jelly.

Holsters, knives and sheaths are by yours truly.

Just a excuse to show my restored remington new model army again. It has been refinished, red post king front sight installed and the rear hog wallow is squared up. I havent shot it in many years but it was accurate.

dkizer22 said:

You must be watching "Hell On Wheels".

Check Cabelas online, they have several. I just got an 1860 Army by Pieatta. It has not been fired yet because I need some #10 caps, that I should get this week. They also have Uberti's and the best prices I found.
Fit and Finish was good.
Stay away from the unfinished kits, I looked at them at Dixie Gun Works and the cost and time to finish them were not worth the savings in price.

Cabelas has a starter kit with some of their guns and shipping for $5.

Click to expand...

Thanks for this information. IMHO, the 1860 Army is the nicest looking. Cabelas has that for $250 or $300 with the starter kit. There is one or two for less than that on Gunbroker but they may bid higher closer to auction close.

I have the Uberti 1860 Colt Army! It is a very good shooter.