ever have a problem with unlined AR barrel?

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psjoe

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Hi-

Well I have been on the fence about an AR purchase for a while now. But I think I should get in while I can. Looking at an inexpensive del-ton sport, it's $450. But is has an unlined barrel, just plain chrome-molly. Now this will be an AR just to have an AR, spending it's life in storage.

So, has anyone ever had an issue with and unlined AR barrel. I will keep it clean and oiled, but the AR action (DI) and chamber concern me. Am I worrying too much about this?

Thanks - joe
 
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What do you mean unlined? Not chrome lined? That's not an issue. Most rifles are not chrome lined. It only really matters if you shoot corrosive ammo and there is no corrosive 556/223. DD doesn't even use Chrome lined barrels.

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I have several of each. Honestly I can't even tell the difference between them. They both shoot as good as I can, and I'm not sure about you, but I couldn't afford the ammo it would take shoot either barrel out. Everything in the AR world is personal preference. Pick what you like and can afford and enjoy it. It would be a shame to pick one up just to put it in storage. But everyone's perogitive is different. Best of luck.
 
The one bad AR 15 barrel that I have personally experienced was made by SGW in Olympia, WA. It was their state-of-the art effort at the time. It was not chrome lined or with a chromed chamber. I attended a Carbine Class at Thunder Ranch with this newly assembled carbine. It was shooting 3/4" groups when I left home with about a total of 100 rounds thru the barrel. I was shooting top quality Lake City 55 gr. ammo. I shot a little over 1,000 rounds thru the course. The accuracy started to drop off by 500 rounds. By the time I finished this carbine would not group better than 6" groups at 100 yds. I was so disgusted that when I got home I removed the barrel and cut it in two. Now, this is not a wholesale condemnation of SGW's entire barrel output, but rather is offered as an illustration that bad things can happen in mass production. I'm the first to say the the very next barrel produced by them could well be a MOA shooter thru 4k to 5 k rounds and then only slightly exhibit some deterioration.

The performance of any rifle barrel is subject to such a variety of variables that you should revel in your good ones, replace the bad ones and go on with your shooting sports. Barrels are expendable. They start changing performance characteristics from the first shot and continue to do so until replaced. .............
 
The only real advantages to a chrome lined barrel are they don't copper up like a regular barrel (why the military only needs CLP for maintenance) and if you have a bump fire stock that lets you shoot at near full auto rates of fire the chrome holds up to heat where the unlined will quickly shoot itself out during sustained rates of fire under high heat.
 
Chrome lined is the best for:
* Corrosive primers (not an issue for .223)
* Full auto or high volume rapid fire
* Long life span
* Harsh conditions
* Neglect

Non-Chrome lined is better, generally, for accuracy, as chrome lining tends to amplify imperfections by magnifying them due to the layer effect. Your best barrels will not be chrome lined. (Conversely, the cheapest barrels aren't either, so don't use that as a litmus test of quality.)
 
The earliest military ARs did not have chromed bores. That was added due to rusting problems encountered in the hot humid climate of Vietnam. In normal circumstances, a chromed bore would not be necessary. There is an excellent summary of the history of chrome plated bores to be found here. Note especially the commentary regarding the chrome plating of Japanese Type 99 rifle bores during WWII: A Short History of Chrome Bores | WeaponsMan
 
Thanks for the info. How about the chamber and dirty steel cased ammo?
 
I've had three types of barrels:.

Hard chrome = Additional material added to the bore that increases hardness, wear, and corrosion resistance at the detriment of accuracy.

Unlined = Better accuracy at the detriment of hardness, wear, and corrosion resistance.

Hot Salt Bath Nitride (a.k.a. Melonite, Armornite, Tennifer, etc) = Metal treatment that imparts the benefits of hardness, wear, and corrosion resistance without affecting accuracy because there is no additional material added to the bore.

Civilian rifle, semi auto fire, where I have to pay for my own ammo? There is no practical difference between the three types in my hands. Clean the rifle, pull a lube moistened patch trough the bore and you're good to go with all three.

psjoe said:
Thanks for the info. How about the chamber and dirty steel cased ammo?
Click to expand...

Steel case ammo does not necessarily have to be dirty. It just happens that the affordable typically Russian manufacture ammo happens to be slightly more dirty than most. Increased wear with typical Russian steel case ammo is due to the projectile: soft lead core with a mild steel copper washed jacket (a.k.a. bi-metal). This won't pass the magnet test.

Here is everything you wanted to know about it:

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

Short story:

Steel case ammo costs less, wears out your barrel & extractor 40% - 50% faster. Some ranges ban the use of affordable Russian made steel case, bi-metal jacketed ammo.

A barrel will see around 10K round life when shooting traditional copper FMJ projectiles.

An AR-15 isn't a delicate flower. It's a gun. Barrel's, bolts, extractors will wear out and eventually need to be replaced. The AR-15's design facilitates this. Shoot steel case ammo and use the savings of steel case bi-metal over traditional brass case copper FMJ to replace the barrel at 5K to 6K rounds. Shoot traditional brass case copper FMJ and replace your barrel at 10K rounds.
 
Thanks JaPes - excellent post and article. That answers everything. Really should be a must read for AR owners.
-Joe
 
With the coming election, and recent events, don't take too long making a purchase decision.
 
psjoe said:
Hi-

Well I have been on the fence about an AR purchase for a while now. But I think I should get in while I can. Looking at an inexpensive del-ton sport, it's $450. But is has an unlined barrel, just plain chrome-molly. Now this will be an AR just to have an AR, spending it's life in storage.

So, has anyone ever had an issue with and unlined AR barrel. I will keep it clean and oiled, but the AR action (DI) and chamber concern me. Am I worrying too much about this?

Thanks - joe
Click to expand...

The direct impingement system has proven itself to be reliable far beyond what you would expect based upon reading articles by "gun writers" and by people trying to sell piston systems.

I have a friend who intentionally did not clean his Colt M4 and shot it over the course of a couple of years until it finally failed to cycle. I was actually using it when it finally failed. It was filthy and gunked up. He looked in his log book, and the weapon had been shot for 15,000 rounds without a proper cleaning. He would spray lube on the bolt, but that's it.

So, piston ARs are, in my opinion, a solution in search of a problem. And, piston ARs create another real problem, and that is damage to the alloy receiver from the tilting of the bolt and carrier when the piston strikes those parts. Colt solved this to great satisfaction with its system, known as the Articulating Link Piston system or ALP.

I do not believe the piston solves any problem that a cleaning every few thousand rounds will not solve on your standard DI operating system. And, unless you get the Colt ALP, a piston system will actually introduce a problem that, over time, damages the receiver.

That said, a chrome-lined barrel, or a nitride treated barrel (the process, usually known as melonite or tenifer, depending on who is applying it) has a real benefit beyond making the barrel extremely resistant to corrosion. The benefit is that it really does extend barrel life. A 5.56/.223 barrel will shoot out much faster without the chrome lining or an equivalent steel hardening process.

My vote is to spend another $100.00 and get a Sport II from S&W. The Ruger AR556 does not have a barrel treatment, so it suffers from the same issue as your Del-Ton.

In addition, I think you will always get your money back from Colt, Ruger or S&W, but not so with Del-Ton.

Just my two-cents worth. . . .
 
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