How to counterfeit a Brill holster.

rednichols · Oct 12, 2017

crazyphil said:
I am fortunate enough to have one coming. I will post photos
when it gets here. You 2 guys are both two of the best living
leather artists. I have specimens of both your endeavors, and
they are top notch.

Phil is quite the diplomat. Maybe one of us should be insulted

.

Here's my Brill Persons, which is not a replica as I don't use any of N.J. Rabensurg's 'markers'. Instead it's a 20th century update like a car that looks like a '56 'Vette but with a 2017 'Vette engine under the bonnet.

Pics tell the tale but some words are in order. Improvements include:

1. the cuff has been shrunk into place while wet, with forced-air heat, to squeeze the welt area.
2. the cuff is screw removable. This allows the upper edges to be trimmed for a wider belt (this one is fitted up for 1-1/2" width).
3. inside is a full-length sight protector for both front and rear sights. It's extruded elastomer and adds to the 'threepersons effect' for retention, too. A single central stitchline, twice in same holes, attaches it; which allows the free edges to adjust to suit the pistol.
4. inside is a rubber spacer held in place with a massive screw post that is not screw-adjustable. This does more than provide a positive stop for any trigger guard including hooked; it creates a 'threepersons effect' by providing friction against the dust cover, with or without rail.
5. the welt is a first for me (not saying I invented it; I'm saying it's the first time I've thought of doing it): wetted, bent into shape, dried; then glued into the seam. 16 ounces.
6. the fender is a separate panel that is stitched to form the top of the belt loop. Far better cutting economy; what were the Brills thinking?
7. sculpted to clear the knuckle of the second finger, in two places on the holster pocket; the fender is still full width because the belt pulls it out of the way.
8. fully lined with kangaroo leather in veg tanned with a waterproof finish. The fender, too; tho the construction would enable it to be unlined. I believe Brills had half-lined pockets and fully lined fenders to prevent rubbing the trousers with the flesh side (otherwise, why bother to line the holster only on one side; couldn't be to protect only one side of the cylinder).
9. basket weave pattern intentionally is contemporary rather than Brill style.
10. teenut construction, all stainless screws etc., for servicing.

Brill-Persons holsters are not available for purchase; I make them only as gifts for friends and Phil got the first one

. Another friend who is not on the forum will get the second, in brown, also for the auto. Reckon I'll do the SAA after that.

Eddie Southgate · Oct 12, 2017

keith44spl said:
Well,
Designs get copied all the time.

I personal wouldn't want to counterfeit anything of any maker.

I sometimes take artistic license with my designs, but no knock-offs here.

And some of the better one's get improved upon.

* Note; I'm retired and only build special projects for myself and a few close friends.

Dave , that is beyond beautiful . I need one , do you have any openings for New close friends

?

Eddie

PS : Edited because Stunning actually describes it better !

crazyphil · Oct 13, 2017

If Rabensburg made the first one wasn't Brill copying Rabensburg?
Wasn't Rabensburg, in a way, copying Captain Hughes (instructions)?
Everyone copies someone. Copying is the highest form of flattery.
The more you are copied the more you are flattered. (complimented)
I'm going to call all of them "Sunday Holsters". Without Captain Hughes
there wouldn't be any of them.

BTW I never intended to insult anyone. "two of the best" suggests
there are others. I hope I didn't insult any of them.

rednichols · Oct 13, 2017

crazyphil said:
If Rabensburg made the first one wasn't Brill copying Rabensburg?
Wasn't Rabensburg, in a way, copying Captain Hughes (instructions)?
Everyone copies someone. Copying is the highest form of flattery.
The more you are copied the more you are flattered. (complimented)
I'm going to call all of them "Sunday Holsters". Without Captain Hughes
there wouldn't be any of them.

BTW I never intended to insult anyone. "two of the best" suggests
there are others. I hope I didn't insult any of them.

Of course you didn't insult anyone Phil; it's simply not in you

.

Everyone doesn't copy someone, though, unless one subscribes to the ridiculous notion that 'there are only so many ways to bend leather' -- meaning if it's folded at the front, or folded at the back, etc., one has copied someone who did that before.

A Brill is a Threepersons with a cuff 'round it. But the Brill was first. Yet a Threepersons is simple and functional and survived to the present day in the arsenals of lawmen, and the Brill did not.

All patents are, literally, "on the improvement" per the USPTO. That organisation recognises that there is 'nothing new under the sun'. Yet was the fax machine a copy of something? The Apple phone? The internet? The polio vaccine because vaccines existed already? Jet fighters because they had two wings?

So, although there were holsters made in two pieces before Neale's Safariland with SightTrack, it had never been done precisely in that way. Ditto with my SightStrip and I had to take Gould & Goodrich to court (I won) to prove the point. For us inventors, the world is full of ordinary people who will argue about these things rather than simply, go their own way

.

gnfrk · Oct 18, 2017

Red - man I just love reading your posts. Especially when it comes to the historical record of holsters and the engineering process. That is one sweet looking holster. Simply an extravagant blend of form and function by bringing together facets of various design into a single work of art. Great integration of the sight track and rubber spacer. Well done.

rednichols · Oct 22, 2017

Post 21 shows a black Brillpersons for the auto; this is a brown version that another friend asked for:

Remember, I do not sell these; they are only given as gifts to friends.

clang444 · Oct 22, 2017

Look, I made a genuine Bryl holster too! Remember, I do not sell these either, they are only given as gifts to friends
: )

rednichols · Jan 16, 2018

In reviewing image folders I was reminded, that it appears that there were no early Brills with the Brill mark in the centre of the cuff, that were Mexican carved.

Here's a late Brill by Rabensburg, I think the image is turnerriver's (someone please correct me if I've got the owner wrong):

keith44spl · Jan 17, 2018

rednichols said:
Phil is quite the diplomat. Maybe one of us should be insulted .

Here's my Brill Persons, which is not a replica as I don't use any of N.J. Rabensurg's 'markers'. Instead it's a 20th century update like a car that looks like a '56 'Vette but with a 2017 'Vette engine under the bonnet.

Pics tell the tale but some words are in order. Improvements include:

1. the cuff has been shrunk into place while wet, with forced-air heat, to squeeze the welt area.
2. the cuff is screw removable. This allows the upper edges to be trimmed for a wider belt (this one is fitted up for 1-1/2" width).
3. inside is a full-length sight protector for both front and rear sights. It's extruded elastomer and adds to the 'threepersons effect' for retention, too. A single central stitchline, twice in same holes, attaches it; which allows the free edges to adjust to suit the pistol.
4. inside is a rubber spacer held in place with a massive screw post that is not screw-adjustable. This does more than provide a positive stop for any trigger guard including hooked; it creates a 'threepersons effect' by providing friction against the dust cover, with or without rail.
5. the welt is a first for me (not saying I invented it; I'm saying it's the first time I've thought of doing it): wetted, bent into shape, dried; then glued into the seam. 16 ounces.
6. the fender is a separate panel that is stitched to form the top of the belt loop. Far better cutting economy; what were the Brills thinking?
7. sculpted to clear the knuckle of the second finger, in two places on the holster pocket; the fender is still full width because the belt pulls it out of the way.
8. fully lined with kangaroo leather in veg tanned with a waterproof finish. The fender, too; tho the construction would enable it to be unlined. I believe Brills had half-lined pockets and fully lined fenders to prevent rubbing the trousers with the flesh side (otherwise, why bother to line the holster only on one side; couldn't be to protect only one side of the cylinder).
9. basket weave pattern intentionally is contemporary rather than Brill style.
10. teenut construction, all stainless screws etc., for servicing.

View attachment 306995

View attachment 306996

View attachment 306997

View attachment 306998

Brill-Persons holsters are not available for purchase; I make them only as gifts for friends and Phil got the first one . Another friend who is not on the forum will get the second, in brown, also for the auto. Reckon I'll do the SAA after that.

Red,

Nice job....

The construction of your rig, kinda favors the old Gould & Goodrich duty holsters that was issued to a lot of departments.

What with all them screws, I'd bet you had a hand in designing those too.

Brill/Persons,

Su Amigo,
Dave

rednichols · Jan 18, 2018

keith44spl said:
Red,

Nice job....

The construction of your rig, kinda favors the old Gould & Goodrich duty holsters that was issued to a lot of departments.

What with all them screws, I'd bet you had a hand in designing those too.

Brill/Persons,

Su Amigo,
Dave

Not directly, but indirectly

. The original jacket belt loop was invented, and patented, by Paul Boren at Safety Speed. His spring metal shank was bent into a flat 'U' at one end and that was inserted into a slot in the backside of the holster. His two rivets then went through both the main shank, and the free end of the U on the inside. Really strong! At Bianchi we tried to compete with some really lame efforts until we finally settled on the three rivets -- and still had some failures. Got tired of that and switched to a solid rivet that was 'headed' with a German orbital riveter.

On the Brillpersons, the assembly is not a triangle of strength. The upper two simply replace the hand sewing of a real Brill, and the lower one the stitching of the lip of the holster muzzle to the fender.

Admittedly FAR stronger than the Brill. But how strong does it have to be? The real 'secret' -- it's not a secret -- is the hidden 3/8" steel post that passes through the holster beneath the cuff, front and back, and is covered inside by a 3/4" rubber grommet. The trigger guard does more than rest on this grommet; it is placed to create friction on the underside of the dust shield for general retention.

A more modern version is my Speed Triple (n/a for the Glock, this was made up for my armourer who carries one and I can count on not to shoot until it clears leather). On this one the trigger guard support is obvious and strengthens the holster. Inside, too, is my patented SightStrip sight protector; it will accommodate the big sights of optics pistols and silencer-ready pistols.

keith44spl · Jan 18, 2018

Thank you for the detailed reply........

Just out of curiosity, what does one of your Brill/Persons
for say a gov't model 1911, what does the holster weigh?

Many Thanks,
Dave

crazyphil · Jan 18, 2018

David, since I have numero uno Brill-Persons I can try to answer your
question. The scales I used are for human beans, so don't know how
accurate for smaller objects.

The Brill-Persons by Red, on the left, about 6 oz.
The Brill look by David, on the right, about 3 oz.

keith44spl · Jan 18, 2018

Thanks Phil.

Su Amigo,
Dave

Ole Joe Clark · Jan 19, 2018

clang444 said:
Look, I made a genuine Bryl holster too! Remember, I do not sell these either, they are only given as gifts to friends
: )

Now that we have all the insulting out of the way, I prefer my friend Red's holster to yours, even though I'm sure yours is an original.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

buffhuntr · Jan 24, 2018

rednichols said:
Phil is quite the diplomat. Maybe one of us should be insulted .

Here's my Brill Persons, which is not a replica as I don't use any of N.J. Rabensurg's 'markers'. Instead it's a 20th century update like a car that looks like a '56 'Vette but with a 2017 'Vette engine under the bonnet.

Pics tell the tale but some words are in order. Improvements include:

1. the cuff has been shrunk into place while wet, with forced-air heat, to squeeze the welt area.
2. the cuff is screw removable. This allows the upper edges to be trimmed for a wider belt (this one is fitted up for 1-1/2" width).
3. inside is a full-length sight protector for both front and rear sights. It's extruded elastomer and adds to the 'threepersons effect' for retention, too. A single central stitchline, twice in same holes, attaches it; which allows the free edges to adjust to suit the pistol.
4. inside is a rubber spacer held in place with a massive screw post that is not screw-adjustable. This does more than provide a positive stop for any trigger guard including hooked; it creates a 'threepersons effect' by providing friction against the dust cover, with or without rail.
5. the welt is a first for me (not saying I invented it; I'm saying it's the first time I've thought of doing it): wetted, bent into shape, dried; then glued into the seam. 16 ounces.
6. the fender is a separate panel that is stitched to form the top of the belt loop. Far better cutting economy; what were the Brills thinking?
7. sculpted to clear the knuckle of the second finger, in two places on the holster pocket; the fender is still full width because the belt pulls it out of the way.
8. fully lined with kangaroo leather in veg tanned with a waterproof finish. The fender, too; tho the construction would enable it to be unlined. I believe Brills had half-lined pockets and fully lined fenders to prevent rubbing the trousers with the flesh side (otherwise, why bother to line the holster only on one side; couldn't be to protect only one side of the cylinder).
9. basket weave pattern intentionally is contemporary rather than Brill style.
10. teenut construction, all stainless screws etc., for servicing.

View attachment 306995

View attachment 306996

View attachment 306997

View attachment 306998

Brill-Persons holsters are not available for purchase; I make them only as gifts for friends and Phil got the first one . Another friend who is not on the forum will get the second, in brown, also for the auto. Reckon I'll do the SAA after that.

A right hand Brill-Persens for a 4 3/4" Colt SAA would be splendid!

How to counterfeit a Brill holster.

rednichols

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Eddie Southgate

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crazyphil

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rednichols

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gnfrk

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rednichols

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clang444

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rednichols

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keith44spl

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crazyphil

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Ole Joe Clark

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