Hand Grenade Training Dropped From Basic Training

Lee in Quartzsite said:
At least the US Navy is going back to sextants so that they have a backup to GPS. The navigator in my aircrew always used a sextant to verify our position because the Loran was known to be unreliable. Just hope the Navy doesn't bump into any more ships.....

Naval Academy reinstates celestial navigation
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My brother flew the Carribean for many years, all of his aircraft had little plexiglas domes so you could use your sextant. (He primarily used AM frequency directional radio finders to navigate outside the US, back in the day the military added a fixed error to the LORAN that civilians were not privy to.)
 
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They dropped the Grenade Throw from the PT Test shortly after I graduated from BCT in 1967. Too many people were boloing it. "Just like throwing a baseball." And for those us who didn't play ? The replaced it with the Fireman's Carry. I was on KP the day of the grenade toss, first time I threw one was in combat. You're only good at what you practice, something that Army doesn't believe in. The M79 did a good job of lobbing grenades. No Land Navigation then, I learned to read a map and compass in Boy Scouts. When I went through ROTC Advanced Camp at Fort Bragg in the Summer of 1975, lots of land navigation, they sort of learned their lesson in Vietnam.
We had bayonet training-"WHAT'S THE SPIRIT OF THE BAYONET!!??" Also trained with the butt strokes. We were told, "If you break the stock of your M-14-don't worry about it!" They wanted to encourage aggresiveness.
 
Technology is a strange yet relentless thing.
Fer instance-there aren't any more mule skinners in the army any more and they do NOT teach you how to use a slide rule in college any more. All fine and dandy but what happens when the electricity goes out! I suspect that even though they teach celestial navigation again they still let them use computers to crunch the numbers! Real celestial navigation would mean having your chart books and doing the number crunching with a pencil and paper. You then use your dividers and parallel ruler to put your position on the chart. Of course us really old guys are still bemoaning the switching over from the astrolabe to the sextant!
As far as hand grenades are concerned, I always thought the german one were easier to trow than the pineapples :D
 
Army basic training didn't drop handgranade and land nav training, they just dropped the pass/fail evaluation. The problem is the tight scheduling of training in basic training and too many trainees were failing and there wasn't enought time to retrain and retest them. It is amazing that a lot of recruits can't throw a granade 15 meters, the blast radius of a granade. Also the Marines dropped passing the combat enduance test as a requirement from the infantry officer course(they just have to do it, passing not required) and marine basic training changed passing 6 out of 9 distance marches to passing 2 out of 3 desinated marches out of the 9. It is all about maintaining a graduation rate instead of qualified graduates.
 
Here's what I've gleened from reading most all of your posts..If the kids can only do the basics, from basic, and can't find their tail with both hands, know how to shoot,,not just a American rifle or hand gun, then us old codgers just might end up like the Germans did, and have to rely us old soldiers..

What really scares me, is the new breed of "soldier", if they are caught...My neighbor kid joined the Army last summer, I do believe if he was ever caught and even so much as as a hint that he would be tortured if he didn't talk, he'd soil his pants right then and there.

Ok, I'll finally admit it, I was Air Force, before the Vietnam really got cooking..But look at them now,,,flying drones from some shack here in the states, just like playing a video game...Parts availabity to keep planes in the air, or machinery of the other services going.

So it's not just knowing how to throw a grenade, or knowing what direction the sun comes up, or where the North star is.

Well, you fellows know what I'm saying.




WuzzFuzz
 
I had to quit reading after a bit - the land nav and the grenade are still being taught, they just aren't giving a grade for it.

I (somehow) got expert grenade in 1980 - by throwing a grenade threw some windows and other obstacles, but also threw a live grenade, which they will continue to do. Land Nav is important, and we were taught basics of it in basic, but I don't remember doing anything like we did years later in PLDC or BCNCOC.
I threw a live grenade on numerous occasions during active duty, and it is fun, but scary as hell holding a live grenade.
Firing a lukewarm training LAW rocket was only okay, but a M203 grenade launcher was like a shotgun, no fear compared to a grenade ;)
 
Slightly off topic, but involving a hand grenade. This was told to me by an ATF Agent from the Los Angeles area. Two distinguished young men, who I believe were members of the Mongols Motorcycle Club, rode their bikes onto the front lawn of a home of a member of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club. One of the distinguished young men threw a hand grenade through the front window. The Hells Angel looked at the grenade, picked it up to examine it, and looked out his broken window at the the two young men laughing hysterically. Then he pulled the pin and threw the grenade back at them.

Now I don't know how true this story is, but I'd like to think it is true, because it does bring a smile to my face.
 
nodpete said:
This post reminded my of something else, when we did gas mask training, they taught us how to put them on quickly, etc. and then then had us put them on and walk through a building with tear gas in the air. If you had your mask on correctly, you did fine if not, well you know what happened. Then we went outside for some other training and they had us sitting in some bleachers. During the training , they threw tear gas under the bleachers and the mad scramble for the masks started. I was wearing my glasses and in the panic, tried to get my mask on over them. It took quite awhile and a lot of eye washing to see again. The drill sergeant said "the enemy isn't going to tell you when he's going to attack, pay attention at all times". Ah, the good ole days !
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In my time in the Corps I got 2 absolutely free trips through the gas chamber (CS gas). A bunch went inside a big open wood building. They started the gas, you whipped off your cover (hat) and placed it between your knees. Don your mask. An instructor was near the door and you had to remove you mask, give your name rank, serial number and home of record to get out. If you got out and didn't have your cover you had to go get it without your mask. I never left my cover. In boot camp you had to first address the instructor as Sir and they made sure you spoke long enough that you got a good dose of gas. Lots of guys puked.
 
I remember the gas and having to remove the mask and telling name, rank and serial # Sir! Makes a real impression. Also remember a march and bunch of big ole guys bragging how tough they were and wouldn't run when the surprise gas attack came. They were the first ones running through the plum bushes at Fort Jackson, SC, and the Sargent's were yelling and tackling them. I never ran, but it seemed like it took forever to get the mask on. Made expert on the M1 later because I hung in there and followed orders, and had shot a lot during my youth.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
 
In the old days we kids, boys and girls got a lot of time out doors playing games, ruff housing and when
the going got heated there was always a chance of chucking a rock at the buy guys.

These new kids probably never chucked a rock.......
and it should be the first thing they have to pass before going to
the real thing.
How much does a 30 oz. rock cost, anyway?

I bet less than a bus ticket back home !!.
 
The gas to me, was no worse than a sharp slit onion.

Then when outside... it hit like a brick. All the liquids came out of my face, and I couldn't see! Sure cleared my nose holes well.
 
Ivan the Butcher;139942261In some countries (Egypt for one) said:
The Egyptian military’s performance in modern wars isn’t what I’d call a ringing endorsement for such training.
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I knew a Korean War combat medic who was a college basketball player who dropped out in order to volunteer . He could throw grenades 15 yards farther than most of the other guys and was highly sought after by squads when they went out on patrol.
 
CAJUNLAWYER said:
Technology is a strange yet relentless thing.
Fer instance-there aren't any more mule skinners in the army any more and they do NOT teach you how to use a slide rule in college any more. All fine and dandy but what happens when the electricity goes out! I suspect that even though they teach celestial navigation again they still let them use computers to crunch the numbers! Real celestial navigation would mean having your chart books and doing the number crunching with a pencil and paper. You then use your dividers and parallel ruler to put your position on the chart. Of course us really old guys are still bemoaning the switching over from the astrolabe to the sextant!
As far as hand grenades are concerned, I always thought the german one were easier to trow than the pineapples :D
Click to expand...
Everyone should spend three weeks without electricity, cell phone and internet, (non potable water to boot)just so they know how it feels. Last time I did it makes me hope it was the last time I did it.;)
 
nodpete said:
I still have the ring from the 1st grenade I ever threw in basic training at Ft. Leonard Wood in June of 1960. I've used it as a key ring ever since.
Click to expand...

Oh my.... never gave it much thought.... good times :)

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