"New" Concealed Carry (.450 SMC/45 ACP)"The Grizzly"

All very nice revolvers!

I would be happy with a 2.75" S&W625 round butt with a non-fluted cylinder, as what I want is a concealed carry .45 ACP short barrel cut for full moon clips made to handle the hottest .45 ACP loadings for self-defense carry. It would compliment my S&W625 JM custom Apex Tactical with ammo compatibility.

Hopefully, soon the Socialist Republic of California will have to relent on their attacks on its citizens Second Amendment Rights and their right to keep and bear arms in defense of their persons.
 
StrawHat said:
Why the un-fluted cylinder? When I look for a carry piece, I want the lightest revolver I can get for the frame.

Kevin
Click to expand...

I want an unfluted cylinder made for maximum strength for use with loads such as .45 Super & .450 SMC. Most of the time loads such as Federal 230 grain HST +P are more than enough. There are times more power could be needed in some scenarios and with moon clips a fast ammo change could have such power on tap. Say against a dangerous large animal.
 
I thought of an advertising name for the new gun. The "GRIZZLY" as "No one messes with the business end of a Grizzly". Have Bart The Bear roaring face on and then fade to a closeup of the new short barrel .45 ACP/.450 SMC revolver loaded with the largest hollow points. Announcer says would you mess with a "Grizzly"; "for personal protection against the wolves in this world." :)

Your engineers would have to consider if 2.75"or 3" would be better and marketing, which would market better. I believe detectives, and civilians from states limiting magazine capacity , as well as people such as myself would be very interested in such a firearm! :cool:

images


Like the below but more down the bore and where all the cylinders can be seen:

the-revolver-is-dead.jpg


030_4.JPG

images

:eek:

The .450 SMC: A Potent & Practical Defensive Cartridge
by RICHARD MANN

For everything there is a downside and a compromise.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/the-450-smc-a-potent-practical-defensive-cartridge/

smc.jpg


Who else would like a "GRIZZLY"?
"Protecting the innocent against the wolves of this world, S&W!"
Remember it still retains its ability to fire the .45 ACP

S&W making a STAND for the PEOPLE!

Sign me up for one of the first ones made! :D
 
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StrawHat said:
The fluted cylinder is just as strong, perhaps a bit more so than the unfluted style. But, perception is what sells items, not facts.

Kevin
Click to expand...

Well, I for one am looking for maximum strength so those wishing so shoot .45 Super and the .450 SMC as a steady diet through their revolver can do so safely. I am not up on the exact tolerances on all .45 ACP cylinders and freely admit that. Neither would I want to batter a gun with heavy loads which I doubt I would personally, seeing I am content with the better +P HP loads currently offered however that is not to say I might change depending on a loadings street performance. Seeing I have nearly 50 years experience shooting a .45 ACP and I'm 6'5' and 290lbs I find even the heaviest loads in a .45 ACP relatively pleasant to shoot.

I also have a lot of time shooting the .44 Magnum.

I leave the engineering up to engineers. I freely admit I am just a trigger puller from a time long past.:)

Rocky

I love the below revolver! I only wish it was in a Performance Center Model in current production!!! :D

S&W Model 625-6 3" .45 ACP

SWModel625Snub.jpg
 
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A 230-grain load fired from the .450 SMC cartridge out of a 5-inch 1911 will generate about 78 percent more recoil than a 230-grain load fired from a .45 ACP. :eek:
 
If anyone would at least like to see the return of a short barrel .45 ACP revolver designed for concealed carry to current production I sure would appreciate hearing from you here on this thread! Thanks :)

Rocky

SWModel625Snub.jpg
 
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An unfluted cylinder is not one bit stronger than a fluted one. Look at where the steel is. You can not make a N frame sized cylinder take any more pressure than ir does now. They are already using one of the best possible steels heat treated to its ultimate yield strength. The thickness of the cylinder wall is the limiting factor at this point. To get more you would need a bigger cylinder and a bigger frame. There is only one thing that would help and that is making it a 5 shooter in order to move the stop notch from being right on the chamber.

But, this gun right here will get you are far as you can go. Cylinder is a new style 44 mag reamed to 45 colt, then cut for moon clips, It will fire acps, supers, 45 colts or reduced load 45 win mags,
HbDLuyu.jpg


But I carry one of the 2 5/8" barreled 325s with a titanium cylinder loaded with 200gr Gold dots. I do not believe I need any more power. the only real advantage of a steel gun is less felt recoil and probably some longevity. But, most people will not wear out a alloy big bore as they do have some seriously snappy recoil
 
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Steelslaver, thanks for the information!:)

What I really want to see is a Model 625 2 3/4" round butt stainless steel .45 ACP Performance Center revolver in modern production even if only in a limited run so hopefully I can get my hands on one. I load my S&W 625 JM 4" Apex Tactical Custom with Federal 230 grain HST +Ps as my bedside gun and would do likewise with a 2 3/4" most likely. As soon as we get California sorted out so that we can legally carry concealed I plan to apply to get a permit as I have held outside California. :)

I live in Northern Los Angeles County (Canyon Country) to be near my wife's youngest three granddaughters (happy wife happy life;)). The crime is really getting outrageous!!! My wife and I have witnessed assault and battery of a large man on a female neighbor at her doorway yet the LA Sheriff's Deputies refused to arrest the attacker despite the assaulted person wanting to press charges as well as my wife and I offering to be witnesses against the attacker. We moved out of that apartment complex into a seniors complex but are still surrounded by troubled people for miles.

zipmouth_iStock_000002466674Small.jpg


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaAmkWx1mJg[/ame]

Hotel California: You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave! :eek:
 
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BTW even if S&W were to make an 5 shot N frame cylinder the only real advantage would be getting the stop notch away from chamber . You could not move chambers closer to center to increase outside chamber wall thickness. This is because the rims of larger cartridges or clips already touch the very edges of ratchet teeth.
 
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I lived in Casper, Wyoming for ten years and miss those mountains. There, I carried a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" .44 Magnum as I liked the balance of the barrel better and it would handle the Randy Garrett 330 grain +P Hammerheads when I was in grizzly country. Garrett Cartridges Inc.

I'm just looking for a round butt standard six shot 2 3/4" Performance Center Model 625 release from Smith & Wesson for us civilian concealed carry people. S&W makes a short barrel .357 Magnum and a .44 Magnum; the Model 627, .357 mag is cut for moon clips but not the Model 629 .44 mag.

I have thought seriously about buying a PERFORMANCE CENTER MODEL 629 .44 Mag. 2.625" barrel revolver and having the cylinder cut for full moon clips. It is just that I would love to have a concealed carry revolver using the same ammo as my other revolver.

The 310-gr SuperHardCast Hammerhead is the most powerful Randy Garrett load that S&W revolvers can handle. Garrett Cartridges Inc.
 
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I am sure there are gunsmith around who could convert that “…PERFORMANCE CENTER MODEL 629 .44 Mag. 2.625" barrel …” to 45 ACP for you. Andy Horvath comes to mind.

Kevin
 
StrawHat said:
I am sure there are gunsmith around who could convert that “…PERFORMANCE CENTER MODEL 629 .44 Mag. 2.625" barrel …” to 45 ACP for you. Andy Horvath comes to mind.

Kevin
Click to expand...

Thanks! However, I do not have the finances. It would take all I have just to purchase the PERFORMANCE CENTER MODEL 629 .44 Mag. 2.625" barrel. :)
 
YkcorCal said:
I want an unfluted cylinder made for maximum strength for use with loads such as .45 Super & .450 SMC.
Click to expand...

As mentioned the weakest point on these six-shot 45s is the metal thickness at the cylinder's stop notch.

My S&W 45 revolvers range from .026" to .030" thick metal at the stop notches.

My N-frame 44s range from .039" to .041" thick at the stop notches.

That's 27% less metal thickness for the 45s at the stop notch.

The flutes, or lack of them, do nothing to change this fact.

.
 
Here is some food for thought. Ruger only loads because of Ruger's superior strength.

Ruger Super Blackhawk cylinders are 1.710 in diameter

S&W N frame cylinders are also 1.710!!!

Ruger's advantage isn't their massive frame. Cylinders blow up then take out the frame. You don't see a broken frame and a unharmed cylinder without some another factor entering in. Ruger's mechanism is such that their bolt stop comes out of the frame off center and allows their stop notch be off to the side of the chambers enough to have full thickness throughout the chamber.

Notice the X frames which fire high pressure rounds have odd numbers of chambers. Even the new 350 Legend is a 7 shooter. It places the stop notch away from chambers

A 5 shot N frame 45 cylinder would be interesting to play with. But I still believe that a 255 gr slug leaving the barrel at 1100fps (I load my 45 colts to 45acp +P pressures) is going to kill anything just as dead as a 44 mag. 200fps will not make that much difference with heavy bullets and past 100yds 41, 44 mags or 45 colt you just have slightly different arches in the rainbow trajectory and it you don't know your rounds rainbow you are gonna miss. A 45 ACP reamed to accept 45 win mag brass using thee same 255 gr slugs could get that 1100fps without blowing up the gun. The depth of the cylinder does not make it any weaker. 25,000psi in a super is has no more wall thickness than a long colt chamber. A longer chamber allows more slower burning powders like 2400, 4227 and H110
 
steelslaver said:
Here is some food for thought. Ruger only loads because of Ruger's superior strength.

Ruger Super Blackhawk cylinders are 1.710 in diameter

S&W N frame cylinders are also 1.710!!!
Click to expand...

If you have both S&W and Ruger revolvers have you ever measured the length of the cylinder?

I have read that Ruger cylinders are longer with more freebore. And that sometimes the Ruger only loads are too long to fit in a S&W chamber. If the cylinder is longer the extra free bore reduces pressure too.

I would never shoot a Ruger only load in my S&W 44 Magnum. I do believe Rugers are stronger. But there is probably more to it than just the raw strength of the revolvers.
 
Ruger's Super Blackhawk long cylinders are 1.703 and S&W are 1.705 (non recessed). I have never measured a Redhawk. But, did some research and read it is .05 longer which is not much. But, it is also .05 larger in diameter, Having the same chamber pattern would give it .025 more cylinder wall, but no more steel between 2 of the cambers. I still content the main reason for their superior strength is the offset stop notch.

A longer cylinder will allow you to to put the bullet father out in the case and give you a bit more case volume. But, a round with say 22 grs of 2400 and a 255 gr bullet with a 1.6 over all length isn't going to give much difference in pressure or velocity in a cylinder if you had one .05 longer than another. Besides reducing pressure will not increase velocity.
In rifles with more free bore than you could get out of a cylinder and with no barrel to cylinder gap you might get 50fps which isn't going to change the ballistics that much.

But like I said 200fps of increase velocity from a 255 gr bullet won't kill anything much more dead on a decent shot. On a poor shot it will not be that much more wounded either.
 
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A (5) shot N-frame 45 would be cool in the same way the M69 (5) shot L-frame 44 is.

Don't think we'll be seeing one anytime soon though from the factory. :(

I easily chrono'd over 1200 fps with a 230gr JHP in my 45WSM. Averaged 1265mv with a full load of Blue Dot in my max load.

I worked up some loads using 250gr & 270gr bullets in it but got sidetracked with some other new toys & forgot to go back & chrono them, but 1100mv at 45 Super pressures is doable.

Very slow powders really need a roll crimp which means the COAL" is controlled by the location of the crimping groove.

If you're using a taper crimped jacketed bullet without a cannelure you can tweak the COAL" a bit but they work best with moderate speed powders.

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45WSM
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I bought 200 pieces of Starline 45 win mag brass to play with. But, I have not done much with them. Made up a few rounds using charges backed off from my 45 colt loads,

While I would not fire "Ruger only" loads in a S&W 45 colt I firmly believe that they will handle 45 ACP+P pressures forever. That your having no problems running supers at 28,000psi is not really surprising to me, but having 2 of the snub 325s I would bet the recoil is really snappy in one of those.

But, in an actual self defense situation, if the 200grr Gold Dots I carry in mine don't do the job it will be more my fault than needing more power.
 
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