"New" Concealed Carry (.450 SMC/45 ACP)"The Grizzly"

[steelslaver]

BTW even if S&W were to make an 5 shot N frame cylinder the only real advantage would be getting the stop notch away from chamber . You could not move chambers closer to center to increase outside chamber wall thickness. This is because the rims of larger cartridges or clips already touch the very edges of ratchet teeth.

 

[YkcorCal]

I lived in Casper, Wyoming for ten years and miss those mountains. There, I carried a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" .44 Magnum as I liked the balance of the barrel better and it would handle the Randy Garrett 330 grain +P Hammerheads when I was in grizzly country. Garrett Cartridges Inc.

I'm just looking for a round butt standard six shot 2 3/4" Performance Center Model 625 release from Smith & Wesson for us civilian concealed carry people. S&W makes a short barrel .357 Magnum and a .44 Magnum; the Model 627, .357 mag is cut for moon clips but not the Model 629 .44 mag.

I have thought seriously about buying a PERFORMANCE CENTER MODEL 629 .44 Mag. 2.625" barrel revolver and having the cylinder cut for full moon clips. It is just that I would love to have a concealed carry revolver using the same ammo as my other revolver.

The 310-gr SuperHardCast Hammerhead is the most powerful Randy Garrett load that S&W revolvers can handle. Garrett Cartridges Inc.

 

[StrawHat]

I am sure there are gunsmith around who could convert that "…PERFORMANCE CENTER MODEL 629 .44 Mag. 2.625" barrel …" to 45 ACP for you. Andy Horvath comes to mind.

Kevin

 

[YkcorCal]

I am sure there are gunsmith around who could convert that "…PERFORMANCE CENTER MODEL 629 .44 Mag. 2.625" barrel …" to 45 ACP for you. Andy Horvath comes to mind.

Kevin

Thanks! However, I do not have the finances. It would take all I have just to purchase the PERFORMANCE CENTER MODEL 629 .44 Mag. 2.625" barrel.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I want an unfluted cylinder made for maximum strength for use with loads such as .45 Super & .450 SMC.

As mentioned the weakest point on these six-shot 45s is the metal thickness at the cylinder's stop notch.

My S&W 45 revolvers range from .026" to .030" thick metal at the stop notches.

My N-frame 44s range from .039" to .041" thick at the stop notches.

That's 27% less metal thickness for the 45s at the stop notch.

The flutes, or lack of them, do nothing to change this fact.

.

 

[steelslaver]

Here is some food for thought. Ruger only loads because of Ruger's superior strength.

Ruger Super Blackhawk cylinders are 1.710 in diameter

S&W N frame cylinders are also 1.710!!!

Ruger's advantage isn't their massive frame. Cylinders blow up then take out the frame. You don't see a broken frame and a unharmed cylinder without some another factor entering in. Ruger's mechanism is such that their bolt stop comes out of the frame off center and allows their stop notch be off to the side of the chambers enough to have full thickness throughout the chamber.

Notice the X frames which fire high pressure rounds have odd numbers of chambers. Even the new 350 Legend is a 7 shooter. It places the stop notch away from chambers

A 5 shot N frame 45 cylinder would be interesting to play with. But I still believe that a 255 gr slug leaving the barrel at 1100fps (I load my 45 colts to 45acp +P pressures) is going to kill anything just as dead as a 44 mag. 200fps will not make that much difference with heavy bullets and past 100yds 41, 44 mags or 45 colt you just have slightly different arches in the rainbow trajectory and it you don't know your rounds rainbow you are gonna miss. A 45 ACP reamed to accept 45 win mag brass using thee same 255 gr slugs could get that 1100fps without blowing up the gun. The depth of the cylinder does not make it any weaker. 25,000psi in a super is has no more wall thickness than a long colt chamber. A longer chamber allows more slower burning powders like 2400, 4227 and H110

 

[Dave Lively]

Here is some food for thought. Ruger only loads because of Ruger's superior strength.

Ruger Super Blackhawk cylinders are 1.710 in diameter

S&W N frame cylinders are also 1.710!!!

If you have both S&W and Ruger revolvers have you ever measured the length of the cylinder?

I have read that Ruger cylinders are longer with more freebore. And that sometimes the Ruger only loads are too long to fit in a S&W chamber. If the cylinder is longer the extra free bore reduces pressure too.

I would never shoot a Ruger only load in my S&W 44 Magnum. I do believe Rugers are stronger. But there is probably more to it than just the raw strength of the revolvers.

 

[steelslaver]

Ruger's Super Blackhawk long cylinders are 1.703 and S&W are 1.705 (non recessed). I have never measured a Redhawk. But, did some research and read it is .05 longer which is not much. But, it is also .05 larger in diameter, Having the same chamber pattern would give it .025 more cylinder wall, but no more steel between 2 of the cambers. I still content the main reason for their superior strength is the offset stop notch.

A longer cylinder will allow you to to put the bullet father out in the case and give you a bit more case volume. But, a round with say 22 grs of 2400 and a 255 gr bullet with a 1.6 over all length isn't going to give much difference in pressure or velocity in a cylinder if you had one .05 longer than another. Besides reducing pressure will not increase velocity.
In rifles with more free bore than you could get out of a cylinder and with no barrel to cylinder gap you might get 50fps which isn't going to change the ballistics that much.

But like I said 200fps of increase velocity from a 255 gr bullet won't kill anything much more dead on a decent shot. On a poor shot it will not be that much more wounded either.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

A (5) shot N-frame 45 would be cool in the same way the M69 (5) shot L-frame 44 is.

Don't think we'll be seeing one anytime soon though from the factory.

I easily chrono'd over 1200 fps with a 230gr JHP in my 45WSM. Averaged 1265mv with a full load of Blue Dot in my max load.

I worked up some loads using 250gr & 270gr bullets in it but got sidetracked with some other new toys & forgot to go back & chrono them, but 1100mv at 45 Super pressures is doable.

Very slow powders really need a roll crimp which means the COAL" is controlled by the location of the crimping groove.

If you're using a taper crimped jacketed bullet without a cannelure you can tweak the COAL" a bit but they work best with moderate speed powders.

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45WSM
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[steelslaver]

I bought 200 pieces of Starline 45 win mag brass to play with. But, I have not done much with them. Made up a few rounds using charges backed off from my 45 colt loads,

While I would not fire "Ruger only" loads in a S&W 45 colt I firmly believe that they will handle 45 ACP+P pressures forever. That your having no problems running supers at 28,000psi is not really surprising to me, but having 2 of the snub 325s I would bet the recoil is really snappy in one of those.

But, in an actual self defense situation, if the 200grr Gold Dots I carry in mine don't do the job it will be more my fault than needing more power.

 

[YkcorCal]

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[YkcorCal]

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[YkcorCal]

Essentially, what you get with the .450 SMC are 10 mm velocities with a .45-caliber. Of course, since no one is manufacturing .450 SMC semiautos, what you're probably wondering is what you have to do to shoot .450 SMC in your .45 ACP. Well, a .450 SMC cartridge can be fired in any .45 ACP handgun. However—and this is a big however—it should only be fired in full-size .45 ACP handguns that have a +P rating. (A 20- to 22-pound recoil spring in your favorite 5-inch 1911, or a 21- to 23-pound spring in a Glock.) Or you can shoot it in a .45 ACP revolver rated for +P .45ACP rated ammo. A 230-grain load fired from the .450 SMC cartridge out of a 5-inch 1911 will generate about 78 percent more recoil than a 230-grain load fired from a .45 ACP.

That is why I want a from the ground up short barrel .450 SMC/45ACP designed to handle said round accurately in combat conditions to defend both civilians and law enforcement as a concealed carry revolver. With what ever design and engineering features to make it the ultimate defensive revolver including sights, grip angel, grips, barrel, and balance.