Charter Arms Bulldog/44 Special...Thoughts?

BLACKHAWKNJ said:

Had mine since the 1970s, I second the use of Pachmayr grips. Skeeter Skelton wrote that his favorite load of a 240 gr SWC over 7.5 grains of Unique was too much for it.

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Six grains of Unique behind a 240 grain bullet is approaching the upper limit for me with the BD. Lighter bullets (180 and 200) are barely tolerable at 7.5 and 7.0 grains of Unique.

Capt. F. said:

And, if yours is like mine it has adjustable sights.

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My 720 has performed flawlessly since the day I bought it NIB many years ago. Shown with my 696.

I have one and am pretty happy with it.
Quality control is still pretty spotty, but on average they are better now than in the past. Don’t be surprised if you have to buy 2 or 3 or 4 to get a good one, but when you do find the good one you will probably never sell it.
Factory ammo is scary expensive and hard to find and so it is primarily a reloader’s cartridge. I load mine with 200 grain lead semi-wadcutters at about 750+ fps to keep the recoil from being painful.
As far a I know, the Bulldogs are the biggest caliber in the smallest and lightest package for a regular production gun out there.

Model 15-4ever said:

It's a strange day when I can recommend a Charter Arms revolver over the comparable S&W model all week long, and twice on Sunday. For less than 1/2 the price, you are getting the same or greater practical functionality, and the same warranty, with somewhat of a loss of aesthetics.

I have a thread on here about the current craptastic production, assembly and repair of the S&W Model 36 Classic. Purchased factory new, I've yet to be able to fire it, and it's on its THIRD trip back for repair. One botched job after another. S&W appears to be having a rough patch.

I've owned a small army of Charters over the years. A few have needed factory service, most have not. My last three have been perfect. For the price point, you're not getting a S&W trigger pull or finish - when S&W does it right. The accuracy of all my Charters is sufficient to keep all their rounds on a standard police silo target @ 25 yards.

I have a Charter 41 Mag Pug that is just fine after 200 rounds. If Charter was a weak design it would not be able to be chambered in .41 Magnolia.

I've had about a dozen Bulldogs over the years, some purchased new, some pre-owned. After 1000 rounds of too-warm handloads, one had to go back for end-shake issues. Charter gladly repaired the gun, for free. My current Bulldog is the 3" barrel Classic. I have 2000 rounds through it, and it's working fine, I carry it with confidence, it is lightweight, powerful and recoil is not excessive.

In regards to .44 Special, the only factory load in my testing that expands from a 2.5-3" barrel is the Hornady 165 grain FTX Critical Defense. This load makes ~900 fps for ~300 fpe, penetrates 12" and expands to .70... what's not to like? The Federal 200 grain SWCHP load is disappointing, does not expand.

Factory practice ammo is rather expensive, and recoil not pleasant in the lightweight Bulldog. If you handload, a 200 grain cast bullet @ 750 fps is an accurate milder load. Serious handloads using a 190 grain SWCHP @ 900 fps is a great round within SAAMI pressure specs when using modern propellants.

Charter used to advertise the Bulldog with the line, "Carries like a .38, Hits like a .45". That's not too far from the mark.

Be Safe.

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I think Taurus also makes better guns now than S & W, and I have always been a big S & W guy.

I thought about one for years, but never bought one till a friend was hard up for cash. It was still unfired in the box, I figured it would make a great truck gun.

It's never gave me any trouble, has a good kick with Gold Dots.

Shrek Of The Arctic said:

I’m thinkin’ about a .44 Special. Most particularly, a Charter Arms Bulldog Classic ...

So….44 Special…Charter Arms…Other brands….What are your thoughts? I’m interested.

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Sorry, I am a Brand Snob. Buy cheap revolvers and you will regret it later. CA has been junk for 50 years. JMHO. (BTW any LE issue CA?) I take my S&W revolvers hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, backpacking, etc.

If you are not a reloader you will not get anything out of 44 Special.

Shrek Of The Arctic said:

I’m thinkin’ about a .44 Special. Most particularly, a Charter Arms Bulldog Classic. despite of all of the .44 Special praise, I’ve never been attracted to the caliber in an N frame configuration. With that kinda bulk, I’d just rather shoot a 329,69, etc. I can’t deny an attraction the Model 21 Thunder Ranch types though.

In any case…with the larger guns, I just can’t see not getting a .44 Mag and downloading to my heart’s desire. Now with reference to smaller guns, such as the Charter Arms Bulldog, the S&W 296, and other smaller frame big bores…That gathers my interest pretty darn quickly.

It’s been my learnin’ that everything varies with a bullets performance, except for weight. A consistent heavy bullet is quite comforting to my mind. Even more so in the form of a cylinder full of wadcutters or semi-wadcutters.

I’ve kinda been feeling a tad burned out on S&W lately. Not a lack of love, but just…really expensive and getting a bit valuable to knock around in the truck, canoe, etc. I also have a thing for the older Charter Arms. Just kinda….classic in their own 70’s and 80’s way. They appear to be a real nice size between packability and controllability. Finally…it’s within my budget. I went through great lengths recently to purchase a Model 19-4 and a 617, so…revolver funds could use some recuperation time.

I do debate whether the .44 Special holds any appreciable advantages over my excess pile of .357s, but maybe that’s just another reason to try one so I can find out?

I did note a Charter Arms available in .45 ACP, but it doesn’t take moonclips, I don’t think there’s much in the way of speedloaders for it, and it doesn’t have the neat old school look. It’s not a gun I need, but more of a nifty toy that could be useful.

I’m also curious about the really light bullets…like 150-165 grain. Seems those might be fun to shoot under a light powder charge if you can keep them anywhere near point of aim.

So….44 Special…Charter Arms…Other brands….What are your thoughts? I’m interested.

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I shoot 165- 180 grain bullets loaded into the 44 mag, for use in the snub guns. I love them. That said, the 44 Special in a small gun will never compete with the 357 and a same length barrel. That said, do you really expect to run into bears?

I also run the Governor, with 45 acp moon clips. Too big for CCW, but a great gun in everyway, for an advanced shooter. The barrel is 2.75. Reality is velocity will be close to 750-800 fps in the short barrel about the same as your 44 special in the Charter Arms. Nothing wrong with that, just pointing out the numbers---about 300 foot pounds of energy.

Now for a reality check. My 3 inch model 60, great little gun. In 357 it shoots 158 grain bullets to 1,205 fps, that is fast and over 500 foot pounds. You cannot get that in a Charter Arms simply because of the pressure involved. If you compare the 165 grain bullet and same barrel length, 44 will get about 800 fps and the 357 will get 1,200 fps. Not even close.

I love the 165 grain bullets when I can find them, but they are light loads compared to any 357.

wood714 said:

I thought about one for years, but never bought one till a friend was hard up for cash. It was still unfired in the box, I figured it would make a great truck gun.

It's never gave me any trouble, has a good kick with Gold Dots.

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Why a truck gun? It fits in a pocket. A truck gun needs to be something that serves a variety of purposes. A short barrel gun that fits in your pants pocket, does not fit the traditional definition. I have three trucks....a city truck, Ram 1500 Hemi, a highway truck, Ram 1500 Hemi 4 x4 and a Ram 3500 Heavy Diesel 3500. Truck guns must be capable of shooting distance or dealing with bigger issues than some parking lot thug. My opinion of course.

For the last 25 years, the term truck gun has it's own meaning. Here is what most experts say.

I'm old school - my truck gun is a Marlin 1894C 357 mag.

dickydalton said:

I have a Boomer and it's cool BUT, it kicks hard!

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I have one too. Got it for hiking. It does kick like a son of a bitch but for a "get off me gun" it's got all I need. Powerful and nothing to get snagged on. It fits nicely in a "STICKY" holster loaded with either Hornady 165 gr. CD rounds or Winchester 200 gr. Silver Tips.

Law-dog said:

I shoot 165- 180 grain bullets loaded into the 44 mag, for use in the snub guns. I love them. That said, the 44 Special in a small gun will never compete with the 357 and a same length barrel. That said, do you really expect to run into bears?

I also run the Governor, with 45 acp moon clips. Too big for CCW, but a great gun in everyway, for an advanced shooter. The barrel is 2.75. Reality is velocity will be close to 750-800 fps in the short barrel about the same as your 44 special in the Charter Arms. Nothing wrong with that, just pointing out the numbers---about 300 foot pounds of energy.

Now for a reality check. My 3 inch model 60, great little gun. In 357 it shoots 158 grain bullets to 1,205 fps, that is fast and over 500 foot pounds. You cannot get that in a Charter Arms simply because of the pressure involved. If you compare the 165 grain bullet and same barrel length, 44 will get about 800 fps and the 357 will get 1,200 fps. Not even close.

I love the 165 grain bullets when I can find them, but they are light loads compared to any 357.

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What a fun topic to revisit! So, time has passed since I made that original post. Here is where I'm at currently:

The .44 Special remains a caliber that just does not do much for me in the N frames, unless it's just an exceptional gun. Past mistakes in caliber snobbery taught me that lesson. The L frames are of mild interest in the steel frame. For the sake of convenience, I'd throw the GP-100 in that pile. The S&W 296 remains quite interesting to me, though I've seen some wild price fluctuations that curtail some of that interest.

Since I'd posted this, I've actually purchased a Charter Arms. The twist is that I got a Pitbull in .45 Colt. It made alot of sense for me to try, since I already load for .45 Colt and have quite a bit of reloading material on the shelves for that caliber, and a nugget or two of info between my ears. My Charter Arms has been a mixed bag, with some success, and some frustration. I've had some light primer strikes, and the cylinder will spin past a charge hole on occasion. I'm sure I can send it back and get it fixed...if I can remember to. I'm still tinkering and feeling it out. a trip back may not be necessary. It does run just fine with Tier II loads of 255 grain SWC bullets, but that is also my stopping point for that round.

My interest in the big bores is two fold. First off as far as "Do I expect to run into bears?" That answer is an emphatic yes. I live in Alaska, I spend time in the woods, I come across bears every single year. So far all but one has been as scared of me as I was of it. Additionally, moose are a real pain. They get grumpy in the Winter, come in the yard, and try to trample dogs and kids. Even if your household is well behaved, the kids or dogs down the road may have taunted it and put it in a surly mood. There are also aggressive dogs to consider in my specific case. Point being that quadrupeds are very much within the realm of possibility for me.

Additionally, for Winter carry I've seen a fair bit of back and forth about what bullets expand, what bullets don't, how far a .38 Special penetrates Winter layers, etc. I read reports and watched videos until my eyes bled. I finally reached the conclusion that when all is said and done I want to be assured of big, deep bullet holes. the .44 and .45 calibers fill that niche well. I am a believer that the qualities of appropriate bullet penetration go beyond FPS/FPE numbers.

Though I have large, angry critters on my list of consideration, being a small town type of fella, I have small risk of bipedal threats. Armed street robbery and carjacking is excruciatingly rare in my area. Running across a violent mental health person is more in the realm of possibility. Working in the prisons, I do have those who have threatened awful things to me and mine, but so far everyone I run into on the outside either shakes my hand and says gracious things or tries to slink out before I recognize them. In essence, I feel a large bore revolver fits the bill for me quite well. If I lived somewhere else, I could see being enamored of different options.

I once had a Governor. Though I never cared to shoot many shot shells through it, the gun was performed well with them. The .45 ACP moon clips and .45 Colt was a neat option. It exceeded my expectations, but I eventually traded it off out of boredom. I have other guns to scratch that itch. I sure wish S&W had put all that energy into a .45 cal that didn't take birdie shells, That being said, I've grown used to the tone deafness of manufacturers, so I know not to hold my breath. Especially for anything chambered in .45 Colt.

I DO still have an interest in a Charter Arms .44 Special. It would be the classic Bulldog with the blued finish and the 3" bbl. To be honest with myself though, not to fulfill any specific role at this point. Just a neat old classic revolver to scratch the itch when I'm broke. Maybe take it on walks and such in town, but for any defensive roles, I've got better guns in .357 or .45 caliber.

of minor note, my daily carry for awhile now has been a Kimber K6XS with 140 grain Lehigh defense deep penetrators. I figger if there's magic in the flutes, cool. If not, it'll still approximate a decent SWC, which ain't worthless. And in a .38 Special penetration is a deeper concern than expansion. That being said, if I know of something ugly on the streets, get more specific threats than usual, or it's just a full moon and I've a bit of anxiety I swap it out for a 625 Mountain Gun in .45 Colt or a 28-2 in .357. they both shoot and carry equally well, feel and function the same, so it kinda just comes down to what mood I'm in or what's nearest to me.

In summary, I think I can say that I definitely like fat, heavy bullets. Even when the energy tables say less complimentary things, I've seen 'em do exactly what they're supposed to. I feel that the big bore revolver fits my individual life well.

Charter Arms...I'm a bit more ambiguous about. I'm clearly not turned off of them, since I'm considering another. I think I am facing a learning curve in that they're the first inexpensive revolver I've owned in awhile, and I just gotta get used to the fact that they simply are NOT the Smiths and Rugers that I'm more used to. I've still gotta finish getting the one I own calibrated and get to know it better before I get serious about it for a defensive role. If I need help sorting it out, I know I can send it back to the factory. Their warranty enjoys a great reputation. I will not be here badmouthing it before I give them a chance to fix it. I've a feeling that break in, polish, tweaking, removing a coil or two from the extra strength hammer spring, and judicious reloading using Federal and Remington primers will get me to where I need to be.

I'm kinda glad this old thread got dug up. I find that I change over time, even just a year or so. It's good to reflect and do a gut check from time to time in relation to where you were vs. where you are.

Better guns than the much toted Rossi 720.

The Charter weighs much less and is just as strong. Much less expensive.

As a kid visiting gun stores with my dad, I'd drool over the Antique, REAL BRITISH BULL DOG REVOLVERS. When I first came across the Charter Arms Bull Dog - I was very unimpressed with its construction & finish. Even though the Original Bull Dogs were old & worn, requiring extinct ammo - There was just no comparison to their appeal for me.
I'd definitely pass on the C.A. DOG.
>I did find a Powerfull snub-nose Taurus model 651, 5 shot, .357 magnum LNIB at my local pawnshop - at a crazy low price. IT IS AN EXCELLENT CLONE OF A S&W model 49. Its shrouded hammer can be thumbed back to fire SA. It is a great conceal carry revolver - I prefer the wood grips on mine - to the sticky rubber ones. IT is far superior to Charter Arms IMO.
I'm very pleased with it.

I fondled a brand new one about 10 years ago.

Timing was off. Did not carry up on two chambers, never handled another after that.

I took my 44 Bulldog out this weekend and shot it with home-brew 44spl semi-wadcutter and a jacketed hollow-point from Hornady. The WC was about 215 and the Hornady was 185. Both shot great. I am still amazed at the Bulldog as it is so light and the barrel does not appear to be able to handle the 44 Spl. Luv it though.

Mine worked like a charm once I changed the grips. I went to Herrett Shooting Ace grips like these:

. It was still a bit hard to carry concealed. I have Shooting Stars on my 3" Python and they preclude carrying concealed.

I like the Bulldog as a compact, easy-packing outdoors gun for hiking, prowling the desert and such. I usually load a CCI shot shell up first as this is serious rattlesnake country.
Finally got around to shooting my newest Bulldog Classic a few weeks ago and noticed that the barrel was not quite indexed properly, with the result that the front sight was very slightly canted to the right. On a Tuesday I emailed Charter about the issue and they immediately emailed me a return authorization and next-day shipping label. They received the Bulldog Wednesday, repaired it Friday and shipped it back the next Monday. UPS delivered it Tuesday. This is first-class, first-rate customer service especially in this day and age.
We all know Charter has had some ups and downs over the years, but I am here to say the current incarnation of this company is setting a high bar in the firearms industry for taking care of its peeps.
Oh -- and 7.2 grains of Universal under the Hornady 180-grain XTP in Starline brass shoots very nicely indeed. 8)