caliber choices

moonsterman

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When people pick a handgun to carry do you most often choose the platform ....ie 1911 and then pick the caliber around that or do pick the caliber first and then see what firearms it is offered in?

I thought this might be a fun topic...hope you agree?
 
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I guess I pick the platform first, because there are a lot of them out there that I don't like and won't buy regardless of what they are offered in. I only have three different semiauto platforms: 1911 (5), BHP (1), and a Model M, and they cover .32 Auto, 9mm, .38 Super, .40S&W, 10mm and .45 Auto. Revolvers are the only other handguns I have and cover .38Spl (2), .357M (5), .41M (2), .44M (1) and .45 Colt (2). I got all the choices I need.
 
I and many do both depending on several factors. They might want another non 1911 45acp or 10mm, and they'll pick the best platform that makes a gun in their desired caliber. Some people might want another 22lr or other rimfired fired caliber, and they'll pick out the best platform to meet their needs. Others might have physical limitations so are dead set on a 380acp, and they too will then choose a platform second.

Then you might have some that just know they want a 1911, but then have to decide if the want it in 9mm, 45acp, or 10mm. Others might have a fullsize Glock in 40s&w for example so they already know the platform, but they might be looking for a subcompact in that same caliber that shares the same mags... Then some might know the platform already and have a center fired handgun in that platform already but want a training pistol in that platform, so then they'll look to a 22lr on the same platform.

Other than that, when it comes to 9mm exclusively, people generally for the most part choose what caliber they want first and then choose the platform. It just might not seem that way or be apparent because just about all handgun manufacturers offer 9mm.

The answer to your question is that it all depends, but I believe everyone who owns multiple firearms in different calibers have used both methods whether they realize it or not.
 
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It is a combination of the two or sometimes a compromise of the two

How I will be dressed will often restrict the platform

I almost always want the most powerful caliber that I can carry. 357 Magnum, 45ACP and 10MM are all favorites

On occasion there are other factors that will limit one choice or the other

As I get older I often go to lighter firearms. Right now I carry a Smith & Wesson 340 filled with full power 357 Magnum ammunition.

However when headed out traveling, hunting or camping the group usually carries the same caliber for personal protection

There is no One Tool that will be correct for all of the jobs that need to me done
 
Six of one, half dozen of the other. For some people the cartridge is the most important and they get a weapon that will shoot what they want. For some people it is the other way around, or something in the middle, or some other consideration is paramount. Differences of opinion is what makes life interesting.
 
I was pretty sold...

...on 9mm, my choice for carry is a Shield, if you can call that a platform. I got a Shield 9mm EZ for my wife but ended up breaking tradition and getting her a .380 Shield EZ. Choosing ammo for the .380 is VERY tricky, because a lot of it doesn't perform as it should. Fortunately the Shield has a 3.6" barrel which helps expand the choices a little.

So I suppose you can say that we started with a choice of caliber (9mm) but ended up with the Shield 'platform' in different calibers.

Of course most any decent name 9mm ammo works well out of the Shield.
 
I almost always want the most powerful caliber that I can carry. 357 Magnum, 45ACP and 10MM are all favorites

I'd really feel safe carrying this. Would also act as a flame thrower!

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A couple thoughts…

The first shooter who scores an effective hit normally prevails in a gun fight. Missing faster than the other guy at best just functions as suppressive fire.

All hand gun cartridges are arguably inadequate and will only effect a stop in one of three ways:

1) A neurological hit, where the bullet strikes the brain or central nervous system (upper portion of the spine).

2) A cardio vascular hit to the heart or the large vessels above the heart that rapidly reduce the blood pressure to the brain. Keep in mind however that “rapid” is relative. Even if you completely sever the arteries going to the brain, there is still enough oxygenated blood in the brain for the assailant to maintain consciousness for 10-15 seconds. Most deer hunters are also aware that a deer shot in the upper chambers of the heart can still run about 50 yards before it will go down, and if shot in the more muscular (and more self sealing) lower chambers of the heart can run about 100 yards before going down. And those are deer shot with rifle rounds.

3) a psychological stop. About half of all people shot, regardless of cartridge used, stop the assault and either surrender or retreat to avoid getting shot again. It muddles the handgun cartridge effectiveness data as all the cartridge has to do is have enough power to let the assailant know he’s been shot. .32 ACP and up are going to reliably do that. .22 LR and .25 ACP will do that most of the time. In other words, about half the time when an assailant is actually shot, the caliber doesn’t matter at all.


In all three cases accuracy is important as it’s more likely to either result in an effective hit, or more likely to result in the hit needed for a psychological stop.

But here in the US we tend to be more focused on worst case scenarios with multiple, drug affected assailants and are thus biased toward larger cartridges and high capacity handguns. Statistically they play a role in probably less than 5% of all self defense shootings and are decimal dust in the much larger range of defensive handgun shootings where the gun is much more likely to deter and assailant before it is even fired.

—-

Considerations in order of importance:

Fit

When selecting a self defense handgun and cartridge you need to start with a hand gun that fits your hand well. You should be Abel to grip it like you would drawing it from a holster and then be Abel to bring it up into your line of sight and have the sights be nearly aligned when it gets there with no effort on your part to adjust your grip. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but if the front sight is significantly higher than the rear sight it doesn’t fit. On some models different grips or grip panels might fix it, on most models however that isn’t the case.

It’s even worse if you bring the handgun up to your line of sight and you can’t see the front sight at all. Again, a change in grip panels, grips, or in pistols like the 1911 a fully arched rather than semi arched or flat mainspring housing might help. But probably not.

Run that test by looking at a target, then closing your eyes and drawing the gun and bringing it up to your line of sight before opening them again. If you can see both sights and they are fairly well aligned, it’s a good fit.

It’s also important that the trigger reach and grip circumference fit you as well. For a single action only pistol, like a 1911 or Hi Power, just having the pad of your trigger finger on the trigger is sufficient. However for a DA/SA or DAO pistol or revolver you need to be able to get your trigger finger on the trigger all the way up to the crease for the first joint. That’s the only way to have sufficient leverage to effectively control the DA trigger. Some models can be retrofitted with a short reach trigger kit to improve the trigger reach and a thinner grip can also help.

Grip wise, to be able to control a pistol, you should be able to hold the pistol and be able to touch your thumb and middle finger around the grip. Thinner grips might be sufficient to address this.


Model

Way too many shooters start their search for a specific model, often based on authoritarian arguments from the internet, recommendations of tactical instructors, because it’s what the police use, or just because it’s what their friends might use.

That’s ok, provided that model meets all of the fit criteria noted above. If it does not, you will never shoot it well and will never shoot it to the same level you’d shoot something that fit your hand and allowed a much more natural point of aim. In case you forgot, accuracy matters.

Ideally you’ll find a few to several models of decent quality handguns that fit you and you can then choose between them based on what ever other criteria you want to apply.

Size and weight

There’s always a trade off with size. Smaller and lighter handguns are easier to comfortably conceal and carry, and that’s important as if it’s not comfortable to carry, it will be at home in a drawer when you are out and about and suddenly need it.

On the other hand, smaller and lighter handguns are more difficult to shoot well and less comfortable to shoot. It’s a descending spiral as if it’s less comfortable to shoot it, you will shoot it less and never become as proficient with it. Even worse you may develop a flinch with it.

That’s where our cartridge preferences/ hang ups in the US can be a real problem. Shooters often want that easy to carry micro sized 9mm, a J frame sized .357 Mag, when the reality is they never get to the point of being able to shoot them well.


At the other extreme you’ve got the guys who want to carry around a 40 plus oz high capacity duty sized pistol with two spare magazines. Those are the guys equipping for that worst case scenario, when the reality is they will never encounter it, if they use good judgement and decent situational awareness to avoid situations where they are likely to encounter it. They generally forget or ignore that armed citizens are not police officers and do not go into dark and scary places looking for bad guys.

They do however end up with either poorly concealed weapons they can’t take with them many places, and or they end up with back pain and eventually have to get smarter and rethink their choices.

How will you carry it?

How you plan to carry also plays a role. I carried a Hi Power for years and carried a 1911 for years prior to that. I also carry a 3” Model 686+ in the winter and quite often on day hikes. They keys to comfort there are a very well designed holster along with a well designed and made carry belt that does a good job of evenly spreading the load.

There’s also the concealment issue. Too big and too bulky means it’s not concealed and cover garments are not the answer. For example last august it was about 98 degrees with 95% humidity and this guy gets out of his car and starts walking across the parking lot to the store in front of us. I asked my non gun carrying spouse what’s wrong with this picture. She immediately keyed on his unseasonable vest and correctly surmised he was carrying. So much for concealed carry.

I was carrying a Beretta 92 Compact that wasn’t exactly small, but it was still well concealed under a tee shirt, rather than a vest that screamed “cover garment”.

Cartridge

That’s where cartridge considerations become important. How small and light do you want to go and how much recoil can you realistically tolerate and sufficiently master?

That will drive your cartridge considerations to some extent.

Keep in mind that how the pistol operates also affects felt recoil. For example, I personally think the Bersa Thunder in .380 ACP has very objectionable recoil, and I’m not recoil sensitive. The combination of a hot defensive .380 ACP load in an alloy frame blow back operated pistol can be far more abusive than a delayed blowback locked breech 9mm pistol of the same size and weight.

Similarly, 17 oz delayed blow back locked breech Kimber Micro or Sig P238 has a perceived recoil very similar to a 31 oz steel frame blow back operated Walther PPK/S.


——


In summary, start with fit, and then select from those models that fit you based on your size and weight requirements, and carry method - and then factor the cartridge into that decision.
 
My choices are simple, .380 or 9mm. In .380 its a Ruger LCP or my preference, a Glock 42. 9mm, a Glock 43 or 26. All simple draw and pull the trigger guns.
 
Some of us just stumble upon the perfect carry gun. I was carrying a 365 and loved it, until I shot a shield45. After shooting the shield i bought a holster for it and haven't looked back. Now I have 2 shields(picked up a .40pc), but I still only carry the 45. For me it's the perfect carry gun. Small enough to conceal easily, big enough to shoot accurately(more so than it has any right to), and it fits my hand much better than any other carry gun I've tried.
 
For the needs I had, and being mostly close range, I carried a BHP for over 40 years backed up by a model 36. In that case I chose the platform since it was reasonably light, flat and held 13 in the clip and one in the chamber. Now in retirement I carry a 649-2 since I really like the 38 SPl and revolvers that do not throw my empties all over. In that case I chose the cartridge. So my answer to you is 'both depending.'
 
Jeff Cooper

I never knew him so I hope someone will correct me who knows better.
Cooper advocated for the 45 ACP and the 1911 platform. In those days we might say, "It better be a .45!" or "Only a 1911" and mean exactly the same thing. ("My Bible is a 1611 and bless God my gun is a 1911, Do I hear an amen?")

In Cooper's mind, please correct me, the design of the 1911 was critical to shooting the 45 round effectively. The experience of the Marines against the Moro tribes of the Philippines is one of very few where caliber can be said to have been decisive but they needed good training to shoot it out of the double action revolvers of the time. The wiki on it is pretty good.

I was weaned on the 44 magnum, which we all know will "blow your head clean off." That lead me to the 44 special. Then I could not find ammo for that and had to go to the 45. I purchased a Model 457 and then practiced and practiced with it until I could....(you know, put amazing handgun skill here.) Now I shoot them so well that it is only 3rd Gen Smiths for me, any caliber.

Thanks for starting a good new thread!
Kind regards,
BrianD
 
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I never knew him so I hope someone will correct me who knows better.
Cooper advocated for the 45 ACP and the 1911 platform. In those days we might say, "It better be a .45!" or "Only a 1911" and mean exactly the same thing. ("My Bible is a 1611 and bless God my gun is a 1911, Do I hear an amen?")

In Cooper's mind, please correct me, the design of the 1911 was critical to shooting the 45 round effectively. The experience of the Marines against the Moro tribes of the Philippines is one of very few where caliber can be said to have been decisive but they needed good training to shoot it out of the double action revolvers of the time. The wiki on it is pretty good.

I was weaned on the 44 magnum, which we all know will "blow your head clean off." That lead me to the 44 special. Then I could not find ammo for that and had to go to the 45. I purchased a Model 457 and then practiced and practiced with it until I could....(you know, put amazing handgun skill here.) Now I shoot them so well that it is only 3rd Gen Smiths for me, any caliber.

Thanks for starting a good new thread!
Kind regards,
BrianD

IIRC, contemporary accounts indicated the .45 revolvers were not all that effective against the Moros either. But the troops FELT more secure with the larger caliber.
The only man-carried weapons that got fairly good results were rifles, and shotguns loaded with buckshot loads.
 
There is no One Tool that will be correct for all of the jobs that need to be done

This is true for me, also.

But you asked a very thought-provoking question!

I would have to say that most of mine were based on the fact that they're somewhat small revolvers that I shoot well. Caliber is of secondary importance, and .38 +P would be the smallest of my choices.

I carried a Colt DS for years. It, in my opinion, is the perfect cross between a J-Frame and a K-Frame Smith. But then I was blessed with a 3" 65-3, and after an appropriate testing period, it became my EDC, loaded with Winchester 145 gr. Silvertips.

But sometimes a carry gun will find you, not the other way around. Years ago I bought a Colt Delta Elite in 10mm. I had no intention of carrying it, I just wanted it. When I bought dies to reload, I made sure they would load .40 S&W also, even though I didn't have one. Then, one day at my LGS, they had a like-new 4006, for a price I could live with. I figured why not? I already have most of what I need to reload it, so it became mine. It's way too heavy for EDC, but I do carry it if I'm going somewhere like Portland or Seattle, which is seldom to never these days.

And my carry gun for the woods is a Ruger SRH snubby in .44 magnum. That was chosen for caliber and platform equally.
 
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