gjamison
SWCA Member
I bid on 11 guns, S&Ws and Merwin and Hulberts. Prices went beyond me, makes me think I should sell my collection.
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LSB auction in Cody, WY - what did you get?
- Thread starter Shotguncoach
- Start date
Then what would you have - money?...Guns will get you through times of no money far better than money will ever get you through times of no guns...
...Ben
I didn’t manage to grab any S&W’s but I did get a very nice 1886 Winchester takedown rifle and a 1954 Colt Detective Special .32. Got them both well under their low estimates so I was pleased. Will pick them up in Cody on Friday.
The registered magnums were very nice.
Then what would you have - money?...Guns will get you through times of no money far better than money will ever get you through times of no guns...
That saying sounds vaguely familiar...like something from the 60's/70's.
I was already using it by then...That saying sounds vaguely familiar...like something from the 60's/70's.
...Ben
I do have one negative to say about the auction. I was winning bidder at the hammer of one of the Outdoorsman K-22s. He hammered “Sold” at $700 and someone in the room tried to bid a split second AFTER. They backed up, took his bid of $750 and started again. I was so mad I didn’t bid further. The computer screen had already posted I was the winning bidder. In my opinion, that is definitely something an auctioneer should never do! That breaks a rule of auction etiquette that is set in stone.
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Their auctions terms are very strange to me. I’ve never seen the option where the auctioneer can bid up the price themselves. Seems very shady to me.
“ 6. Reserve Prices
RESERVES: Some lots may have a confidential reserve, or minimum selling price. In the case of a reserved item, the auctioneer has been authorized to bid until the reserve price is reached. The auctioneer may note if a buyer is bidding against the reserve.”
In other words, if the price is lower than the “secret” reserve the auctioneer can bid up the auction. So if you put a $1500 proxibid on a gun currently sitting at $1000 and you’re the high bidder at $1000, the auctioneer can see you have a $1500 proxibid then just decide the minimum “secret reserve” is $1500 and just bid up the auction to $1500. It’s a conflict of interest because they are making a commission. It’s says they may note a reserve , doesn’t say they will note or must note.
“ 6. Reserve Prices
RESERVES: Some lots may have a confidential reserve, or minimum selling price. In the case of a reserved item, the auctioneer has been authorized to bid until the reserve price is reached. The auctioneer may note if a buyer is bidding against the reserve.”
In other words, if the price is lower than the “secret” reserve the auctioneer can bid up the auction. So if you put a $1500 proxibid on a gun currently sitting at $1000 and you’re the high bidder at $1000, the auctioneer can see you have a $1500 proxibid then just decide the minimum “secret reserve” is $1500 and just bid up the auction to $1500. It’s a conflict of interest because they are making a commission. It’s says they may note a reserve , doesn’t say they will note or must note.
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If the computer screen showed you as the winning bid then it seems to me that they owe you a K22.
There are other factors that can affect whether we win or not. I had the winning bid a couple times at on line auctions last summer but won nothing. The issue being that others had placed the same bid on line but done it sooner and the earliest posted bid wins. Not the case here of course.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
I agree. And I have a screenshot of that. But at this point, I’m pretty disgusted with them and don’t know that I even want it. All just to increase the selling price by $50.
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This in their online terms of service
4. Title
Title to all merchandise shall pass to the highest bidder at the fall of the auctioneer?s hammer. The buyer will then assume all risk and full responsibility of the lot purchased once ownership has changed.
The other bid fell after the auction hammer. I would complain and if nothing else see if you can make a report with proxibid
I would have bid higher on the 1917, but I just bought the Smith & Wesson Magazine pistol at Rock Island. I already have two 1917 Club Guns, so it didn't hurt that bad. That gun sold a few years ago for 7K plus the juice, so whoever owned it took a hit at this auction.
Many of the big name auction houses have been doing this for years.
These bigger auctions confuse me. That plus their fees have kept me from “playing”.
Larry
Larry
I'm the same...When I tell someone what I'm willing to pay, and I hear acceptance, I don't expect to be surprised with a lot of hidden fees and charges...I'll stay with face to face...Or at the farthest stretch. buying right here on our forum...
...Ben
If that's true how come every left bid I leave with Rock Island never reaches my maximum bid? I've bought over fifty items from them and unless I'm out bid, I almost never pay my max. In the last auction on lot 2037, I bid $12,000 + 1. With the juice, I won it for $9,998.00. Can someone explain that? Now the auction house north of me does just the opposite. Every left bid with them is always what I bid.
Ill be looking forward to the first big auction at Mt McCoy auctions in California, who used to be the other half of Lock, Stock and Barrel before their unfortunate split last year. It was a huge owners disagreement and the California side used to always have the best auctions. I have bought quite a few guns from them in the past. They are great people.
I should clarify the part of that post to which I was responding.
The first part is correct. Some auction houses will bid up to a hidden reserve. That is, the opening bid on an item might be $1000, but there is a hidden reserve of $1500. If you bid $1500 or over, the auctioneer bids it up to $1500. Anything over that, you are bidding against a real person. The problem with a hidden reserve is the potential for one to significantly overvalue an item, and perhaps no one else thought that item to be worth $1000, let alone $1500, and you significantly overpay for an item. Face it, when you (or I) purchase an item at auction, you are the biggest sucker—willing to pay more than anyone else. It is hoped you are the biggest sucker by one bid over the next highest real bidder. Ideally, when you bid on something, your bid was what someone else wanted to pay, but you got it first. There are items I have bid on and someone else is at my max and gets it and so that person beat me out on it. Sometimes after an auction, you might find out—often on this forum, who bid what you did on something. I’ve often tried to “time” when to jump in the bidding so my last bid is my limit, potentially. For example, in a recent auction, I wanted an engraved Smith & Wesson revolver and was unable to time it right. I was willing to go to $6000, so tried to jump in at $5000, next two bids $5500 and $6000. I didn’t get in at $5000 but at $5500, and so the successful bidder got it at $6000 as I, nor no one else, bid $6500 on it. And, the big problem when you get into the $500 increment range is every bid is $500 plus the additional fees, and so each bid you bid is every other bid, so twice $500 plus the juice. So, each of your bids are a few hundred dollars over $1000 higher than your last one. And so it can get really expensive really fast!
One auction house on line which has a unique way about bidding in that your bid must be 5% higher than the last bidder’s high bid—and I actually like this approach—means that hammer prices can be lots of oddball numbers. For example, if a bidder opens at $1000 on an item, 5% higher is $1050, 5% on top of that puts you at $1103, etc. In any event, this auction house had an antique Winchester that I wanted and I bid on it and was severely overbid on it. It went for $10,476. Several other Winchesters in that same auction skyrocketed in the hammer price that last day, ridiculously so. I didn’t think anything of the oddball price as $10,476 meant someone bid $9977 and then a subsequent bidder bid $19,476 or greater and it landed at $10,476, which is 5% greater than $9977. Well more than I was willing to pay for. Wow!
And then this auction house’’s next auction had most, but not all, of these very same Winchesters in it. I called the auction house and asked why. As I wanted that Winchester badly. They said their policy is that the first auction an item is in that item might have an undisclosed reserve. In this case, the Winchester I wanted had a reserve of $11,000 on it. 5% greater than $10,476 puts you at $11,000. So the auction house bids up these firearms to 5% of the reserve hoping to bait someone at the end who bids 5% or greater of that amount.
In the second auction, these items are required to be offered at no reserve, should they fail to sell. Well, technically, these days, everything has a reserve of sorts, and that’s the opening bid, as nothing starts at zero anymore. (It should—but that’s another discussion). In any event, that Winchester which could have cost me, or someone, $11,000 plus buyer’s premium, shipping, and any other fees, landed at my doorstep shortly after they received my check for $6,745.18.
Edit: I should add that the hammer price at the auction I won this Winchester at was $5579. Only slightly more than half what the reserve was at the previous auction. Add in buyer’s premium of 18% and shipping, insurance, etc, and my check would have been over $13k. About double of what it was, of course.
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Generally the owner of the item selling sets his minimum price, call it reserve price. The auctioneer sets the opening price.
I remember reading Dick Francis about British bloodstock horse auctions, the auctioneer would say "now selling" when the reserve was met but have not heard that here.
If no one meets the reserve price the item is removed from the sale and not awarded to the highest bid if it's less than the reserve.
