Poor Accuracy, help

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bryman022

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IMG_1699.jpegIMG_1698.jpegHere are a few targets from 50yds
Shot off a bench with front and rear bags
16x scope setting with parallax adjusted properly.
Have tried several ammo types, these are CCI minimags which have done the best.
Gun is relatively new, bought in 2023 new and just now getting around to using it.
The shots are all over the place, for reference the inner black ring is 3”
I’m going to try a different scope and mount next to eliminate that as the issue.

I’ve read about loose barrel nuts but most if not all those posts are pretty old, is that still a thing with the 15-22?
I think I need to order a barrel nut wrench and check.

I don’t expect target rifle accuracy, but this seems bad. Most groups measure 2.5-3” and some way over, so 5-6 MOA

Any help/info is appreciated
 
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Too many variables which will only be a guess. With only a red dot at 50m, I can do 0.75-1.5" all day long when benched / supported. I can't imagine doing 16x at that short of distance.
 
Start weeding out things ...

First thing I look for is a perfect Crown ... just a tiny ding in the barrel crown can play havoc .
Next ... barrel condition ... Clean no lead and no defects in rifling ...

Keep looking at every aspect ... Bedding ... action and barrel , screws and tension on them .

You should be getting better accuracy ... 2.5 - 6 inches just ain't right .
Gary
 
Assuming the gun is registered, you may want to put all your info, facts, and figures together and contact S&W support. Request them to RMA the gun for checkout and diagnosis. S&W CS is very good. They did the same for me when I was having issues with my PC 15-22 trigger... (and that was an after-market trigger).

Agree with above. You should be getting MUCH better accuracy.
 
I've never owned a .22 that didn't greatly prefer one load over all others. Those targets all look normal to me.
 
robertrwalsh said:
Check the scope mount. Scope in the mount and mount to the weapon. Also clean the bore REALLY good if you haven't already.
Click to expand...
Ive come across a few posts on various forums that suggest that mounting a heave scope can cause issues because the receiver is polymer.
I have a one piece cantilever mount and a Riton 4-16x44 scope mounted. The scope weighs 1.7 lbs not light by any stretch. The mount is aluminum so prolly 6-8 ounces, over 2lbs together. It never crossed my mind but that does seem kinda heavy. I will take it off and try to swap to a lighter scope from another rifle to try out for my next range trip a few days from now. In the meantime is this too much for the polymer receiver/pic rail?
 
bryman022 said:
View attachment 763823View attachment 763824Here are a few targets from 50yds
Shot off a bench with front and rear bags
16x scope setting with parallax adjusted properly.
Have tried several ammo types, these are CCI minimags which have done the best.
Gun is relatively new, bought in 2023 new and just now getting around to using it.
The shots are all over the place, for reference the inner black ring is 3”
I’m going to try a different scope and mount next to eliminate that as the issue.

I’ve read about loose barrel nuts but most if not all those posts are pretty old, is that still a thing with the 15-22?
I think I need to order a barrel nut wrench and check.

I don’t expect target rifle accuracy, but this seems bad. Most groups measure 2.5-3” and some way over, so 5-6 MOA

Any help/info is appreciated
Click to expand...
Every rifle has ammo that it loves, but more commonly ammo it simply refuses to shoot at all. Before you go off searching for ghost problems go to your local sporting goods store and buy a bunch of different 50 round boxes of ammo, 37 and 40 gr, sub sonic to super sonic. Try shooting at least two 5 shot groups from each and compare the group size. As an example, I have a Tikka T1x, .22 with a Vortex Diamondback 6 - 24 x 50 tactical scope. (My philosophy is that if you can't see it, you can't hit it) Benchrest at 100 yards I have shot any variety of ammo through the rifle and have experienced group sizes from 3 inches to 0.5 moa. The Tikka absolutely hates sub sonic ammo but doesn't much like high priced target ammo either. It is happiest with ammo running between 1150 to 1250 fps and 40 gr hollow point bullets.

As for scope issues?? What affects scopes is recoil. Unless you have a super cheap .22 3/4 inch scope on your rifle the recoil from a .22 should not affect it unless maybe the scope mounts are loose. I have friends who have S&W 15-22 rifles that shoot 1 inch groups all day once they have found the ammo the rifle likes. Ammo that shoots good in your buddies rifle may not shoot well in yours. It's a barrel thing.
 
Nothing personal, but the very first thing I check out when someone says they are having accuracy issues is the shooter. Have someone else (with lots of experience) shoot it to see how it performs. If there is no improvement, then start tracking down some of the above suggestions. First in my book is the scope and mounts. Mounts should be torqued to specs. Under/over-torqued screws can deliver inaccuracy by not staying centered to the bore. Even if the mounts check out, I have seen scopes with loose reticles. Next would be the barrel and handguard are both tight. After that check the crown for nicks. Nicks are rare, but left over burrs from manufacturing not so much so, so check for them as well. Given the conditions you state, I would expect ten shot groups of around 2" of less.
 
Thanks for the info!

I have a CZ 457 that I can shoot 1/2” groups at 50 all day long, so I know I can shoot.
I checked the barrel crown and bore last night while giving the rifle a deep clean. It all loos good.
I want to change out the scope and try a different one, but the other scope I have is 1” tube so I don’t have a mount that will work. So I took the scope off and put on a red dot. Its way harder to keep a tight group with a dot but figured it was worth trying.
I set up at 25 yards and fired some 10 shot groups. I actually did quite well for a red dot. groups are average 2” but are actually grouped better than last time with the scope. I need to get a 1” cantilever mount to try my other scope.

I think I may have an issue with my Riton scope.

The bottom middle is sighting in the dot
IMG_1705.jpeg
 
bryman022 said:
View attachment 763823View attachment 763824Here are a few targets from 50yds
Shot off a bench with front and rear bags
16x scope setting with parallax adjusted properly.
Have tried several ammo types, these are CCI minimags which have done the best.
Gun is relatively new, bought in 2023 new and just now getting around to using it.
The shots are all over the place, for reference the inner black ring is 3”
I’m going to try a different scope and mount next to eliminate that as the issue.

I’ve read about loose barrel nuts but most if not all those posts are pretty old, is that still a thing with the 15-22?
I think I need to order a barrel nut wrench and check.

I don’t expect target rifle accuracy, but this seems bad. Most groups measure 2.5-3” and some way over, so 5-6 MOA

Any help/info is appreciated
Click to expand...
I have the performance version of this rifle. ALL .22 rimfires can be extremely picky about the ammo. Try to purchase 1 box of various brands of ammo to test them. Check to see if the upper half to lower half of the rifle is tight, with very little play between them. This is common, and can be tightened up by making a wedge (similar, same purpose that I had to do with my AR-10). I used a large block eraser, and trimmed it to fit so when the two halves are closed it is with compression of the halves, and the cross pin just pushes in. The wedge fits to the rear, where the rear cross pin is. I have found that SK match ammo, Norma Tac-22 and match, and Wolfe match extra (older stuff), CCI green, and some of the Federal work. It will be a work in progress. BUT, cheap ammo is usually not the answer.
Do not expect 1/2 inch groups. Lapua ammo is very good, but expensive. To go to the extreme (I did) you can try a barrel tuner, but my results were not great. Better, not great. Tighten up the halves, try different ammo.
 
robertrogers69 said:
I have the performance version of this rifle. ALL .22 rimfires can be extremely picky about the ammo. Try to purchase 1 box of various brands of ammo to test them. Check to see if the upper half to lower half of the rifle is tight, with very little play between them. This is common, and can be tightened up by making a wedge (similar, same purpose that I had to do with my AR-10). I used a large block eraser, and trimmed it to fit so when the two halves are closed it is with compression of the halves, and the cross pin just pushes in. The wedge fits to the rear, where the rear cross pin is. I have found that SK match ammo, Norma Tac-22 and match, and Wolfe match extra (older stuff), CCI green, and some of the Federal work. It will be a work in progress. BUT, cheap ammo is usually not the answer.
Do not expect 1/2 inch groups. Lapua ammo is very good, but expensive. To go to the extreme (I did) you can try a barrel tuner, but my results were not great. Better, not great. Tighten up the halves, try different ammo.
Click to expand...
One last comment, I replaced the trigger with a Giessle ssa-e trigger that I had on my Ar-10. It made a major difference compared with the factory trigger. I went with the Giessle national match 2 stage on my AR-10.
 
I started bench shooting a few years back. I started by put a Nikon 4x14 scope on a Rock River LAR with a factory, 14.5 inch (P&W) heavy barrel and national match trigger I'd had for a while. Without optics, in never seemed to get near the 1.5 inch groups the gun was reportedly guaranteed to shoot. Anyway, learning to work optics as well as working with different ammo configurations, I discovered the 1-9 barrel liked Hornady 55 grain V-Max the best, giving me a best group of a bit over a half inch at 100 yards. 10X was the sweet spot for magnification out to 500M. Even 55 grain M193, which i considered only good for CQC training ammo, gave pretty respectable accuracy at 500M. The 62 grain softpoint duty loads I'd used on my job weren't as tight shooting. That rifle likes 55 grain bullets. Though i haven't really done any accuracy testing with .22 rifles, I would conclude the same is certainly true. Besides, the QC of tried and true .22 loads over the past few years has been "trying," to say the least. So the OP has a point to find what your rifle likes best.
 
Do you have some sort of device on the end of the barrel?
I had a linear compensator on a .22 that flung bullets all over the target similar to this.
 
No, just the stock flash hider. I think I’ve narrowed it down to a bad scope. I put a red dot on it and got better groups with that than I did the scope. I’m waiting for a 1” cantilever mount to try a different scope.
I also have a barrel nut wrench and barrel vise on the way to make sure the barrel nut didn’t come loose(I don’t think it did).
 
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