My pistol also consistently shoots to left. The groups are small and consistent and I have not experienced this with any other pistol. It does this all the brands of ammo that I have available and has for every one I have asked to test fire it. The POI seems consistent with the experience of others. I am in the process of drifting the sights and it is improving but will take more adjustments and verification. I moved the front sight but not find it to be misaligned to begin with. So the question is, What is causing this issue?
Bodyguard 380 2.0 Shoots POI left
- Thread starter Mark@NH
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It looks like the rear has already been drifted to the right quite a bit and the front some to the left. It would seem that would be more than enough. That’s discouraging. Has S&W offered any explanation?
I have not contacted S&W about the misalignment. Based on the number of posts about the sights being so far out of alignment, I'm guessing there is a manufacturing quality control issue that was not addressed before the grip modules went into full production. It's clearly obvious the barrel is not aligned with the grip module frame. Or... the barrel is not sitting parallel in the slide.
I can drift the front sight a few thousands of an inch more to get it to shoot POA to POI.
halfmoonclip
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Move the sights 'till it shoots where it looks. Oddly, a left handed buddy got a 2.0, and his shoots to the sights.
I think it has something to do with how the gun recoils in your hand.
I have fiddled with my sights, and replaced the rear with a BG1.0...the better sight picture is part of the solution. Those goal post width rear sights are part of the problem...it is hard to be consistent with those.
Moon
I think it has something to do with how the gun recoils in your hand.
I have fiddled with my sights, and replaced the rear with a BG1.0...the better sight picture is part of the solution. Those goal post width rear sights are part of the problem...it is hard to be consistent with those.
Moon
I had a lefty shoot mine and it shot to the left for him too. I do agree that the rear sight gap seems excessive and can make shooting very tight groups a challenge but you are still able to align them. I thought it might be trigger finger location/position because it is so small or grip alignment for the same reason but trying various positions did not help for me. I like the little pistol but will not carry it until the POI issues are resolved. I don’t know why S&W is silent on it. I first tried a friend’s pistol before buying mine and his is fine so I have no idea why mine is not.
BillinAlamo
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Haven't had a chance to shoot mine yet, but the sights are aligned almost exactly like those in the photos in Post #2. We shall see.
Hate to tell you this but while the factory may be able to adjust by swapping parts, what you guys are experiencing is not uncommon at all. For example, lots of fixed sight revolvers won't shoot to the sights for left or right handers (and yes, hold does matter) which is why those Smiths of yesteryear when first intro'd for field use had adjustable sights. Before they were common, front sight bending and/or lots of handloading to find a load that shot reasonably well was the only answer for the issue.
I suspect that your .380 will come back from the factory with a note indicating t is "within specifications" as whatever spec they have for a self defense pistol has already been met.
The pic above w/ the sights drifted is not excessive in my experience BTW. I've had a number of pistols that demanded a lot more than that.
One "trick" you can try is ammo testing. Just like in the regulation of double rifles, load (bullet weight, powder charge, etc) can sometimes either help or solve the problem. I had a Browning High Power the shot a perfect horizontal line, left to right 115's, 124's, 147's. 124's were "On" and so it got fed 124's. I have a ~50-year old M&P I found a perfect handload for. Took a while but now a 158 gr LSWC + a charge of Unique shoots to the sights well enough I can use it in the field. Also a .32 Long that with a 98 gr Wadcutter shoots just a bit low at 15 meters. Also good for ground squirrels.
Anyway, I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, but just some ideas. Nature of the beast is sometimes the only answer. If you don't handload, try various types of ammo and see if that helps.
I suspect that your .380 will come back from the factory with a note indicating t is "within specifications" as whatever spec they have for a self defense pistol has already been met.
The pic above w/ the sights drifted is not excessive in my experience BTW. I've had a number of pistols that demanded a lot more than that.
One "trick" you can try is ammo testing. Just like in the regulation of double rifles, load (bullet weight, powder charge, etc) can sometimes either help or solve the problem. I had a Browning High Power the shot a perfect horizontal line, left to right 115's, 124's, 147's. 124's were "On" and so it got fed 124's. I have a ~50-year old M&P I found a perfect handload for. Took a while but now a 158 gr LSWC + a charge of Unique shoots to the sights well enough I can use it in the field. Also a .32 Long that with a 98 gr Wadcutter shoots just a bit low at 15 meters. Also good for ground squirrels.
Anyway, I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, but just some ideas. Nature of the beast is sometimes the only answer. If you don't handload, try various types of ammo and see if that helps.
My sights were off visibly also. After I drifted them I still shot left so I drifted more until I was centered on target. After a few more range sessions, I started gripping tighter with my right hand and less with my support and ended up centering up my sights and shooting center. I think with the grip being so thin it is easy to push the pistol left.
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I know this is a lot but I replaced front and rear sights with XS sights and installed with a sight pusher. Always a stuggle to remove with a hammer and a punch , not to say all the dents and scratches you might get if not carefull if you take this route which I dont recomend. Invest in a Sight Pusher it will not disappoint. Shot 100 rounds and now very accurate at 20 yards. Bodyguard 2.0 Sight Issues resolved !!
justwippet2006
Member
Same here. I ended up having to take mine to the gunsmith to get the rear sight out because it wouldn't budge even with my sight pusher. The XS sights fixed my left POI issues and I can actually see the sights in low light now.
The list of design and quality control failures on the BG2 produced by a legendary firearm manufacturer is shameful, or ??????? - plug in your adjective
It is difficult to imagine what firearm engineer “experts” were thinking when S&W came up with the Body Guard 2.0. Did those experts actually have any experience with carrying and shooting a very small self-defense handgun?
On their list of check boxes, quality control was too far down the list.
It is known that a low-left POI can be caused by the shooter. A left-handed shooter typically would shoot low-right, so if the sights are off, the POI would be better for a left-handed shooter, right? The light weight and short sight radius of the BG2 exacerbates that effect. I benched mine to confirm that the sight alignment is way off.
If S&W’s design goal and marketing strategy of this handgun was a highly concealable, pocket carry, close encounter self-defense handgun, for the citizen, it failed.
The rear sight’s blacked out wide notch is very difficult to see and locate quicky. The front sight is too dim and small to locate quickly, especially in low light. High contrast white dots on the rear sight would make quick sighting much better.
Another design flaw is the trigger. The flat trigger safety blade is wider than the trigger and has very sharp edges, making comfortable and adequate finger pad placement difficult. Expanding the trigger guard forward even 1/8th of an inch would make quick finger placement and control much better.
On a positive side, there are very nice design features that have been raved about. If S&W would have produced this little handgun the right way, it could have been "Handgun of the Decade". And... I would have paid twice the price for it.
That’s just my worthless opinion.
It is difficult to imagine what firearm engineer “experts” were thinking when S&W came up with the Body Guard 2.0. Did those experts actually have any experience with carrying and shooting a very small self-defense handgun?
On their list of check boxes, quality control was too far down the list.
It is known that a low-left POI can be caused by the shooter. A left-handed shooter typically would shoot low-right, so if the sights are off, the POI would be better for a left-handed shooter, right? The light weight and short sight radius of the BG2 exacerbates that effect. I benched mine to confirm that the sight alignment is way off.
If S&W’s design goal and marketing strategy of this handgun was a highly concealable, pocket carry, close encounter self-defense handgun, for the citizen, it failed.
The rear sight’s blacked out wide notch is very difficult to see and locate quicky. The front sight is too dim and small to locate quickly, especially in low light. High contrast white dots on the rear sight would make quick sighting much better.
Another design flaw is the trigger. The flat trigger safety blade is wider than the trigger and has very sharp edges, making comfortable and adequate finger pad placement difficult. Expanding the trigger guard forward even 1/8th of an inch would make quick finger placement and control much better.
On a positive side, there are very nice design features that have been raved about. If S&W would have produced this little handgun the right way, it could have been "Handgun of the Decade". And... I would have paid twice the price for it.
That’s just my worthless opinion.
LVSteve
Member
As the saying goes, YMMV. Most guys I know prefer blacked out rear sights.
As for the trigger guard, trigger reach, and shooting left, I have a suspicion that S&W have made the classic mistake of simply shrinking a gun down just to make it smaller. Thing is, the average human hand hasn't been shrunk, so you end up with a pistol that "looks right" in terms of proportions, but is out of whack for actually holding the damned thing. Remember when the BG 2.0 was first advertised, there was no sense of scale at all.
I note that the Rifleman review of the new H&K CC9 it was pointed out that the depth of the grip and the position and size of the trigger guard are such that the trigger reach is much the same as the fullsize VP9. Walther played the same trick with the PPS M2.
I don't agree with this. I don't think you really believe this yourself.
If you did, you would not own one. While I agree that the QC on the BG2.0 is shameful, they actually did produce the most concealable pocket carry for self defense. Even with all its flaws, I don't know of any other pistol I would consider for pocket carry.One thing I haven't heard mentioned in these discussions of the BG 2.0 rear sight is that some of the best self defense people advocate for ignoring the rear sight completely in close quarters use of a firearm. They say the best strategy is to focus not on the target but on the front sight, allowing the in-focus front sight to overlap in your field of view with the out-of-focus target. I'm no expert in these matters but it's something to consider.
And that makes your mention of the small, dim front site even more relevant. My BG 2.0 has a decent tritium insert but I agree that the orange ring could be larger and better. I prefer the blacked out rear to "high contrast white dots" because that just confuses me in trying to aim quickly. Maybe my aging nervous system is the limitation, but I find it easier to put the orange dot on the target and forget everything else.
I have come to value your opinion in reading these forum posts. I certainly feel your frustration about a pistol that could have been so much better.
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You make a good point about the gun shrinking when the human hand did not. I was just comparing a BG 2.0 to a Glock 17. Thanks to some clever engineering, the BG 2.0 has a better grip than a Glock 19 and about as good as a Glock 17. There was not much Smith could do about the height of the trigger well but you are right about the trigger reach. Extending the trigger guard further forward would have made the BG 2.0 "look funny" but it would have made for a better shooting pistol. In this instance, Smith went for marketing over performance.
I'm not sure any company is going to make or ever has made a pocket gun with truly superb ergos. For intown carry it's a Ruger EC9s and before that the LC9 (dumped after the firing pin popped out the stern of the slide...). Both a little smaller than the BG, with a few rounds less in capacity. Perfect? No, but I carry it and I shoot it a lot. The ergo problem went away with use and familiarity. Using loads that print to the fixed sights, I shoot varmints and small game with it. It's dead reliable. Assuming the latter is true of a guy's BG, I'd say just keep carrying and more importantly shooting it. Adjust the load to the sights as best you can, and for the rest its Kentucky windage as it is with a lot of small pistols.
My 2 pennies.
My 2 pennies.
Tarheel13,
Your posts are equally valued.
Yes, I do carry my BG2. And yes, it is the best, so far, of a comfortable pocket carry for my wants. When I get to 500 rounds with zero failures, I will call it my RAT (Reliable And Trustworthy) defense pistol.
The factory sights are only a big deal and frustrating while hole-punching paper at the range. During a hypothetical close encounter attack, I realize I will probably point and shoot and not even look for the sights. I am waiting for ArmaLaser’s green laser. I have 4 lasers on 4 firearms, and I really like them. Although they are not popular, I know the common “trade-offs”. I find I can get on target very fast from any position and only have to focus on the target. I can instantly see “feedback” on paper - my grip, trigger press, stance, breathing control, and eye on iron sights, so it’s great for practicing and improving my all-around skills.
Most of my dozen range buddies don’t think much of lasers, and only a couple guys have them. None of them have a laser on their EDC defense pistol.
From the stock rear sight on my P365 Micro I swapped it for Sig’s high contrast white dot and it made a big difference in accuracy at the range.
Regarding the “advocates”…. I can only imagine a very close encounter scenario where I am able to pull my BG2, aim it at an attacker, thinking I will have to pull the trigger to defend myself, my mind and my eyes will most likely not see anything but the target. If the target is beyond 25 or 30 feet I imagine I may have time to put the sights on the target.
One practice device that would be very interesting to experience as an added “training” option is a motorized man-sized shape target that when triggered moves toward the defender at a fast walking or running speed. That would allow a realistic hypothetical attack experience. I have not seen anything like that, although some training facilities may have one.
Your posts are equally valued.
Yes, I do carry my BG2. And yes, it is the best, so far, of a comfortable pocket carry for my wants. When I get to 500 rounds with zero failures, I will call it my RAT (Reliable And Trustworthy) defense pistol.
The factory sights are only a big deal and frustrating while hole-punching paper at the range. During a hypothetical close encounter attack, I realize I will probably point and shoot and not even look for the sights. I am waiting for ArmaLaser’s green laser. I have 4 lasers on 4 firearms, and I really like them. Although they are not popular, I know the common “trade-offs”. I find I can get on target very fast from any position and only have to focus on the target. I can instantly see “feedback” on paper - my grip, trigger press, stance, breathing control, and eye on iron sights, so it’s great for practicing and improving my all-around skills.
Most of my dozen range buddies don’t think much of lasers, and only a couple guys have them. None of them have a laser on their EDC defense pistol.
From the stock rear sight on my P365 Micro I swapped it for Sig’s high contrast white dot and it made a big difference in accuracy at the range.
Regarding the “advocates”…. I can only imagine a very close encounter scenario where I am able to pull my BG2, aim it at an attacker, thinking I will have to pull the trigger to defend myself, my mind and my eyes will most likely not see anything but the target. If the target is beyond 25 or 30 feet I imagine I may have time to put the sights on the target.
One practice device that would be very interesting to experience as an added “training” option is a motorized man-sized shape target that when triggered moves toward the defender at a fast walking or running speed. That would allow a realistic hypothetical attack experience. I have not seen anything like that, although some training facilities may have one.
Pisgah
Member
Hint: Accuracy problems are not always the gun's fault. Bad habits and faulty trigger management cannot be corrected until recognized...
I use a green Holosun laser on a couple of Glock 17s. I'm also aware of the "trade-offs" but I think the laser is good under certain lighting conditions. I might not use it in extreme darkness or in very bright conditions. But it works well for intermediate brightness conditions. And yes, I know lasers are not very popular, especially since red dots became all the rage. I don't use red dots and don't think I ever will. But lasers accomplish many of the same goals. And yes, the laser really improves range shooting and getting sights adjusted.
I have not seriously considered using a laser on the BG 2.0 but I will be watching carefully to see how the ArmaLaser works for you.
I have a friend who runs an international business selling remote controlled electric "scooters" like the original Segway. He sells these to military organizations around the world. It has a human sized dummy riding on top and my friend dresses them to look like the "enemy" of the purchasing nation. They are used for fairly realistic sniper training on a moving target that has irregular, unpredictable motion. We have had many laughs over how successful his business has been.
"They are used for fairly realistic sniper training on a moving target that has irregular, unpredictable motion. We have had many laughs over how successful his business has been."
Why hasn't one of these hotshot expert training guys gotten one of those "scooters"???
If one of our outdoor ranges had one, I'd pay to try it.
Why hasn't one of these hotshot expert training guys gotten one of those "scooters"???
If one of our outdoor ranges had one, I'd pay to try it.
