Model19man
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The question is will Iranians create a new government or will they keep the mullahs and the Ayatollah in place?
Are We At War Now?
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I think you’re spot on. The Mullahs and radical Islamist Iranians see MAD not as a deterrence, but a goal. If they get wiped out in response to removing Israel from the map, so be it. They would embrace mass martyrdom with gusto.
venomballistics
Member
I might agree if we were talking about Iran when it was under the Shaw.
In the hands of a theocratic dictatorship as we see here ... Nope.
It's use is pre justified as the will of >insert sky daddy of choice here<
Devil in the Shade
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I talk to man Vets all the time just getting
Spend some time studying Iran, It is a vibrant modern country, not what people think it is. Times have changed, the younger generation are not in favor of the Present day Mullahs. Contrary to what Fox news and the Neocons want you to believe, Iran does not want war.
Israel is insignificant to Iran other than the threat they are to them. It is Israel with the Nukes. More than any Country in the Middle East.
Israel is nothing. A small country the size of New Jersey with about 7 million people. A economy on the verge of collapse. Millions leaving, The major industry is TECH and they are already and have been leaving, hench the Iran attack near the Microsoft building. Tourism is another major industry and if you want a one way ticket to Tel Avi go for it and good luck. Israel is also near a major rebellion.
My prediction is that the world will see a new Israel and one that is not run Israel. You will see a two state solution or a one state, but if a one state it will not be Israel. This if Israel does not look like Gaza in a few years.
Question? How long were we in Afghanistan? How did that work out? How did all the bombing go? Who won that war? What about Viet Nam? I guess that was a victory and one heck of a bombing war. (remember operation Rolling Thunder) Actually more bombs per acre on Gaza than Viet Nam. Something like 50 bombs per sq Kilometer compared to 250 on Gaza. Who pays for all of this?
What happens if we do not win?
Lol, Israel and the US will choose the new Government (when and if that time comes and things go their way). this is what the war is about. It is not about Nukes any more than Iraq was about "weapons of mass destruction".
Spend some time studying Iran, It is a vibrant modern country, not what people think it is. Times have changed, the younger generation are not in favor of the Present day Mullahs. Contrary to what Fox news and the Neocons want you to believe, Iran does not want war.
Israel is insignificant to Iran other than the threat they are to them. It is Israel with the Nukes. More than any Country in the Middle East.
Israel is nothing. A small country the size of New Jersey with about 7 million people. A economy on the verge of collapse. Millions leaving, The major industry is TECH and they are already and have been leaving, hench the Iran attack near the Microsoft building. Tourism is another major industry and if you want a one way ticket to Tel Avi go for it and good luck. Israel is also near a major rebellion.
My prediction is that the world will see a new Israel and one that is not run Israel. You will see a two state solution or a one state, but if a one state it will not be Israel. This if Israel does not look like Gaza in a few years.
Question? How long were we in Afghanistan? How did that work out? How did all the bombing go? Who won that war? What about Viet Nam? I guess that was a victory and one heck of a bombing war. (remember operation Rolling Thunder) Actually more bombs per acre on Gaza than Viet Nam. Something like 50 bombs per sq Kilometer compared to 250 on Gaza. Who pays for all of this?
What happens if we do not win?
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Richard Simmons
Member
Over 40% of that budget goes out in disability payments so the actual budget for any kind of actual treatment is a good bit less than the whole.
If they're willing to do that now, wouldn't they have been equally willing to do it yesterday?
Devil in the Shade
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Be patient. New things are coming. Game is not over by a long shot. I am still interested in the actual damage assessment of the bunker buster attack. supposedly, Iran knew this attack was imminent and moving the weapons. Also could the bombs actually penetrate to the effective depth and the reinforced structure that was made to withstand a major earthquake.
Declaring victory now is so reminiscent of Bush in his flight suite and helmet on the deck of the USS Abraham declaring victory and end of the war. Trump and Bibi might be popping the Champaign bottle's and thumping their chest, but I have not seen a White Flag yet from Iran.
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venomballistics
Member
Your information is a little off.
Iran was a cutting edge nation prior to the Mullahs rise to power.
The killing of Neda did offer a peek behind the curtain to support the lack of support for the Mullahs several years ago.
This would not likely be the case of it remained a cutting edge nation.
To say that Israel is nothing totally ignores current events.
Iran's top 10 nuclear physicists got whacked within an hour, while the Israelis have done a splendid job of knocking off their military leadership. Even the replacement official vanished in a crimson mist within 48 hours of being appointed to the position.
The Mossad is awesome.
Remember how we bumbled all over the region for years looking for bin laden?
They made our CIA look like a girl scout troop with that performance.
The problem with fighting under developed countries is simply that it is impossible to blow into the stone age, a population that never left it to begin with.
Afghanistan may very well pick fights with leading military powers to get bombed.
They have no problem living in caves.
A military bombardment is just housing development.
Iran is a different animal.
There is a culture that may very well be chomping at the bit to rejoin the technological elite. With the long standing theocracy thrown off with a regime change, there's little reason to stifle these people once they achieve some measure of stability
I worked with many fine young people in DoD; they now are badly exposed specifically in Baghdad at the Embassy, across Hayy al Kindi at Union III, 45 minutes away at all Asad, at Erbil, and Nineweh Province. They are nearly all surrounded by Shi'a PMFs of Muqtada al Sadr.
The Howling Man is struggling mightily because his days are short.
No. We had not attacked Iran yesterday.
Heard before about how the mostly secular, prosperous Iraqis would welcome us with open arms. And Afghans.
Last night could very easily be another premature 'Mission Accomplished' moment.
smithman 10
US Veteran
I told the old boys I breakfast with each Monday that I thought we were essentially in a state of war when we were only helping the Israelis shoot down Iranian incoming.
But like many of us here I'm betting you thought back then as I did that more was to come.
Now it's here and my crystal ball is all cloudy. I don't have a clue what the end of this conflict looks like or how it long it will be in coming.
I just hope the fewest people perish, on all sides I must add, and that Iran truly is no longer a potential nuclear power when all is said and done.
And I might add, I think there is zero likelihood that any other nation is likely to supply Iran with nuclear weapons. That is a silly prediction IMHO.
But like many of us here I'm betting you thought back then as I did that more was to come.
Now it's here and my crystal ball is all cloudy. I don't have a clue what the end of this conflict looks like or how it long it will be in coming.
I just hope the fewest people perish, on all sides I must add, and that Iran truly is no longer a potential nuclear power when all is said and done.
And I might add, I think there is zero likelihood that any other nation is likely to supply Iran with nuclear weapons. That is a silly prediction IMHO.
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YeshuaIsa53
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Nuclear sites were hit, but not their nuclear program. I would have moved most of my inventory long time ago. We will see what happens. Pray for the best.
Devil in the Shade
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Correct and I have talked and know many US National Guard, have talked to Nato Military etc all that have recently been stationed in those areas of Iraq under Operation Inherent Resolve. And they will go into detail about the many attacks by the Revolutionary Guard to their base camps. The thing they realized was that although they had defense missiles, the vast amount were purposely landing OUTSIDE of the perimeter. Hundreds of them and constant volleys.
Why outside. They were showing the US they have the capability to destroy those bases anytime. And right NOW they are SITTING DUCKS.
And I cannot tell you how much this bothers me to no end.
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Oh darn, that means we wasted our bunker busting bombs.
"The enrichment of nuclear material—and, now we can say it outright, the future production of nuclear weapons—will continue," Medvedev, a top ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, wrote in his Telegram post.
Wow...a ruski told the truth, who would have thought that was possible. Guess this blows the claim of enrichment for peaceful purposes all to purgatory, doesn't it.
Wow...a ruski told the truth, who would have thought that was possible. Guess this blows the claim of enrichment for peaceful purposes all to purgatory, doesn't it.
Peaceful nuclear policy for Iran was always horse excrement. The world has known since North Korea got away with it that countries with nuke rarely get invaded no matter how odious the regime.
Now look below at a map of the region - countries on both sides of Iran were invaded recently, Iraq by us (twice), and Afghanistan by Russians, then us. I'd want a hedge against invasion as well. Do you suppose Ukraine would have been invaded had they not given up their Soviet nukes?
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u138/ezdidit_2008/MapofIranIraqAfghanistan.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=c7562c731db8f29173cbcd4d7048af1048bf92dfb5033f3f8c60d0a583c944cd
Now look below at a map of the region - countries on both sides of Iran were invaded recently, Iraq by us (twice), and Afghanistan by Russians, then us. I'd want a hedge against invasion as well. Do you suppose Ukraine would have been invaded had they not given up their Soviet nukes?
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u138/ezdidit_2008/MapofIranIraqAfghanistan.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=c7562c731db8f29173cbcd4d7048af1048bf92dfb5033f3f8c60d0a583c944cd
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Iran has stated, and stated so again today, that their nuclear program is only for peaceful purposes; that they have no intention to develop or possess nuclear weapons. Since that is the case, why would nuclear weapons owning countries provide nukes to Iran? Iran would have no use for them, right?
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