Larger Caliber CCW

SGT ROCK 11B said:
Mike, you have never met a very bad man yet. Some hardcore criminals know most John Q Public types are not going to shoot anybody. That is why their been Cases where bad guys have disarmed people and executed them. JMHO as a cop, Sarge
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That's the deal . Your two most important assets in any confrontation are training and resolve . If you can't hit a target when under stress you will likely miss . If you are at all hesitant to use whatever you carry when you really need to you will likely end up the victim regardless of caliber or quantity of ammo that you carry. Situational awareness and staying out of as many places that make you uncomfortable are your next most important . When I go out to eat with my family I make sure we get seated where I can see the entrance and as near to a restroom as possible. If anything jumps off my bunch will be in the restroom behind a metal door with me standing guard on said door . If my youngest is with me he will have his .357 Mag S&W 4" with reloads . Nobody gets in that shouldn't be in without taking a bullet or two.
 
Eddie Southgate said:
… I make sure we get seated where I can see the entrance and as near to a restroom as possible.
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That reminds me of a story.

I always want to see the front door and back door. One night after the swing shift a few cops and I go to a bar popular with badge bunnies.

Well a guy comes in the back door and loiters there. A moment later a guy comes in the front door and looks at the bar patrons and he appears to be taking an inventory of who’s who. I’m armed with a 1911 and another old timer has a 357 snubnose. We ask the young cops what they are packing. The youngsters said they left their guns in their cars. Bars and guns are not approved they say.

Turns out the bad guys were there to steal a car belonging to a rookie cop and his 357 is in the glovebox. Car and gun never recovered.
 
SGT ROCK 11B said:
That reminds me of a story.

I always want to see the front door and back door. One night after the swing shift a few cops and I go to a bar popular with badge bunnies.
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I agree with that 100% but it's hard to be able to see both in most places . Front door and Kitchen door to dining area is usually the best I can do . Seating by the restroom in the places I eat usually gets me that except at Cracker Barrel .
 
Mike SC Hunter said:
No I haven't met a really bad man.......But bad men don't like to get shot either........Daddy always said "Never pull a knife or gun to threaten.......Iffen ya pull it. Be shootin or cuttin."
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Bad advice. Often the intended victim’s showing a knife or gun without actually using them makes the threat go away with no one injured.
Isn’t that outcome a lot better and cheaper?
 
Phenix said:
Bad advice. Often the intended victim’s showing a knife or gun without actually using them makes the threat go away with no one injured.
Isn’t that outcome a lot better and cheaper?
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Not around my house . If you pull a weapon on me you will either shoot me or I will kill you or probably both. A dollar does not enter into it at all .
 
Donnie805 said:
Concealability and caliber are only two factors in the equation. Ability to use that weapon effectively is of prime importance. Because of neurologic damage in my shoulders and hands, I have to use and carry a weapon that I am able to rack the slide, drop a mag, and insert a new one. For me, a Glock 42 has been a constant companion and a Bodyguard 2.0 is there as well. However, I only carry what I practice with constantly.
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Excellent choices, both!
I pocket carry one or the other of those every day.
Anything heavier pulls my pants down unless I wear suspenders ( which I do sometimes anyway ).
 
Don't get too hung up on caliber. the wound improvement offered by a 45 over a 9mm might quantifiable in testing, However that quantity is typically not a whole lot between permanent cavities.
About the only thing that has changed in our society that may warrant review of your choice of caliber is the likelihood of a mob setting has seen an uptick. and really ... that's more a discussion of platform rather than cartridge.
 
Brian Parrish said:
Another opinion.
I completely agree that the caliber question is the least important issue in the subject of armed self-defense. The most important issue without question is physical fitness. Since a gunfight is more fight than gun, get in shape. Make no excuses; at least get in BETTER shape.
That aside, I certainly do prefer to carry a Model 411 which is a 3rd gen, 40S&W, with a 4-inch barrel.
I have no issues concealing a full size handgun.
It is not heavy, since I cannot even feel it on anymore.
My backup is always a .38 Special or a .380 ACP.
I do not feel motivated by anything going on, nor any greater concerns about safety or danger.
The decisive factor is the ease and accuracy at the range. When it comes time to perform this is the one with which I CAN.

Best Regards!
BrianD
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A high level of physical fitness is good for several reasons, but not relevant in most armed SD situations.
 
Eddie Southgate said:
Not around my house . If you pull a weapon on me you will either shoot me or I will kill you or probably both. A dollar does not enter into it at all .
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It’s not just about the dollar. But your defense attorney fees and related court costs could bankrupt you, even if you are exonerated.
It’s the drawn out stress of wondering if the Court will be convinced you were justified in using lethal force; In some jurisdictions the local prosecutors will come after you with a vengeance, especially if you are white and the attacker was a minority. Then there is the potential of friends or relatives of the person you shot showing up at your house or catching you out getting gas or something and evening the score. Watching you back for years would get old.
 
I’ll stick with my small caliber. I know I should probably move to a .460 or a .50AE, but I’ve carried the little old .45ACP so long I’m just too attached.
 
Phenix said:
It’s not just about the dollar. But your defense attorney fees and related court costs could bankrupt you, even if you are exonerated.
It’s the drawn out stress of wondering if the Court will be convinced you were justified in using lethal force; In some jurisdictions the local prosecutors will come after you with a vengeance, especially if you are white and the attacker was a minority. Then there is the potential of friends or relatives of the person you shot showing up at your house or catching you out getting gas or something and evening the score. Watching you back for years would get old.
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Don’t forget the likelihood of your being sued civilly later by the wounded perp, or his family if he is deceased.
All this stuff can go on for years. The longer it drags out, the more it costs.
 
For me, “current circumstances “ equates to more of a capacity question than caliber. Seems like bad guys are acting in concert with others, like a team or a mob. Even the current trend of “jugging” usually involves at least two to roll up on an ATM user. In Chicago now a team of 3 or 4 stops and jumps out with guns to rob walking victim of money and cell phone. Riots breaking out in LA.

So, I tend to think about “context” when making CCW decisions. While staying in the fairly safe suburbs I feel comfortable with a J frame or 7 round auto like my Kimber EVO. If I’m going into the city or anywhere I perceive to be a high threat environment, then it’s a Glock 19/23 with at least one spare mag. As for caliber it’s 38spl/9mm in Spring and Summer and .40/.45 in Fall/Winter. I think about what bad guys are likely to be wearing and how many layers of clothing involved.
 
“Shot placement is KING, adequate penetration is QUEEN, everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins.”
Not sure who said that first but, it makes more sense in any of these discussions than about 85% of what I’ve read in them.
A 9mm in the hands of someone well trained and practiced that lands in an eye socket, thoracic cavity or heart is far better than a 45AARP that wizzes past someone’s ear. My .02¢.
 
Pisgah said:
The question of caliber is a red herring; ...
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I agree.

I will never criticize someone's choice of cartridge. No one shrugs off a hit from a 22 LR or 32 ACP. They are MUCH easier to shoot rapidly than a 9mm, 10mm, 45 ACP. But no matter what the bad guy is hit with, he's going to run. That's ok. I want him gone and I'm not pursuing.
 
Same caliber. 38 spl. In a Smith Airweight for 52+ years. Sometimes a Glock 42 depending on whim or weather. Yes I've had some very advanced training. Also including 18 years as an academy FA instructor where the other instructors would dream up shooting situations to push each other's skill level. Now retired I shoot at least once a month with a bunch of other geezer LEO's, two of whom are also retired range instructors and take our practice seriously. The others, sadly just throw lead downrange. They attend more for the lunch.

Not much concerned about caliber or load out. Both my J frames and the G42 fit my grip, wrist and arm to naturally point where my eyes tell it.
 
I've always been a snubby 38 SP+P carry person. I carry a model 60. It's my most confident gun. Sometimes my kimber k6xs. I also work with a p365-380, but it's not in my carry rotation yet.
 
Tazman11 said:
Training is critical if you want to be effective using the pistol that you have carried for a lifetime. It’s not just target practice or shooting a good score. Personally I recommend Gunsite in Paulden Arizona. A group of friends and I would go every year for a week of training. I fortunately I was badly injured and can’t endure the riggers of 5 days of training anymore. Gunsite is a gunfighting school created by Jeff Cooper many years ago. They teach combat mindset, gun handling, and so much more. Shoot houses, mam on man, speed of presentation. After a week there, and with continuous practice, you will be ready to deal with bad things where only a gun is the tool needed to solve the problem. I highly recommend Gunsite for everyone who Carrie’s a firearm.

Gunsite Academy

Gunsite’s operation covers 2800 acres, with modern facilities, large classrooms, a fully stocked Pro Shop and a full-service gunsmith operation for our clients only. We have a modern new campground with pavilion, laundry facilities, hot showers and hookups for travel trailers and recreational...
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I used to live an hours drive from Gunsite when they first opened up & to see what they have evolved into over the decades makes me proud to be from Arizona. No fluff just tough
 
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