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Interesting way to stop bullets jumping crimp.

G

geomort

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I loaded some 300 grain WFN 44 magnum bullet to test in the 329PD. These bullets were hard cast and sized .432 for a Marlin carbine. The crimp groove seating depth made them about .010 too long to fit the cylinder. What happened is the bullet ogive would hit the cylinder throat before the rim seated flush against the cylinder preventing closing the cylinder.

I seated the bullets .020 deeper and crimped into the lead with a collet crimping die. When fired they jumped crimp a bit but the hard lead bullet seated tight in the cylinder .010 and stopped pulling any farther. Had to tap out the rounds with a dowel to see how far they pulled but the were all the same .010. At least the velocities were about the same. Before each round dropped a bit in velocity as the bullets progressivly pulled.

I will have to see if the cylinder throats will hold jacketed bullets. Perhaps then I could roll a second channelure to hold the bullets right at the cylinder throat.

I read a report of factory ammo in the 329PD and the conclusion was that bullet pull was not an issue for six rounds anyway. So the factory has it figured out. Staying under 200 grains to prevent bullet pull recomended at one time. Three hundred grains is better for bear.
 
Well,
You sure solved your bullet jumping crimp problem. I just wonder if you didn't create another one though. Those rounds against the cylinder throats MAY cause in increase in pressure that is unacceptable, even for a high pressure handgun round like the 44Mag.

If it was me, I would not use those bullets in the light handgun. A Ruger SBH or SRH along with a M629 or M29, maybe, but not the light framed M329. Just me though. You do as you want.

Now, for the rifle, those would be pretty nice.

FWIW
 
Inquiry:

Could you elaborate on your desire to put that large a slug in that light of a revolver? And how would you describe a) recoil; and b) accuracy?

Thank you.
 
Buffalo Bore has a load that they taylored for the 329.

It is their 255gr Hard Cast Lower Recoil load.

I have shot them in a 44 Mag Mountain gun, and it is a good load.

I would think that Buffalo Bore would have the jumping crimp problem solved.

I have shot a few rounds of 300gr Federal Cast Core in a buddys 329 and we did not have any jump crimp problems.

Recoil of the Federal loads were less than the normal full power 240gr factory loads.
 
Rationale for 300 gr WFN in the 329PD

My wife and I backpack the high country and the 329PD is primarily for bear protection. It's light weight makes for easy carry and 300gr WFN are probably optimal for bruins out of a 44 mag pistol. The recoil is stout and racks the wrist, stings the hand a bit without a glove. It's not that bad with the Houge grip from my 460 but that adds significant weight to the pistol. I use the light weight tan poleymer grips in the field. With a tight two hand hold, "grip it like a bear by the ears," it easily shoots under 6 inches at 10 yards with the factory express style sights. That's good enough. POI is four inch above POA at 10 yards for the 300 gr moderate loads compared with full house 240 gr jacketed. Sight adjustment is not an issue for this application. I'd hunt with a longer barrel and better sight with higher velocity loads.
 
No offense but with that kind of logic, I ain't going hiking with you.

The only way I am going to count on that kind of combination is if I can get the thing jammed down the bruin's throat and happen to get a shot off. 6" at ten yards is a potential miss when your adrenaline is flowing like a river and your feet are saying "don't fail me now!"

A double barreled shotgun with slugs would be a far better choice or even heavy buck shot.

There are stories where a full grown bear took 6 shots to the vitals from a 44Mag revolver and live long enough to kill the shooter, the guide and the camera man. No thanks.

You do as you want, you will be ultimately responsible for your actions anyway. If it were me though, shotgun on a sling.

FWIW
 
Hi, Steve here. I have been reloading 44Mag. for a long time, with no problems till i got my 329PD. (She is a hard dog to keep under the porch). First problem i ran into was bullets pulling out of the crimp after 4 rounds or so, tried most every thing , crimped light,med, heavy,seated All over the range of the crimp cannaler. Started using a light TAPER crimp followed by a heavy role crimp.This seems to work. Tried to read something into the case mouth flairing.Same thing Light,Med, heavy flairs. All the bullets i had the pulling problems with were in the 240 weight, no problems with the 200grn. I was recently told about Garrett (Garrett Cartridges Online), they went heavy with a 310grn 1020-fps load for use in the 329PD. I have yet to try any thing over 240grn.
 
A load that you guys may want to try in your 329's is 10 grains of Unique under a cast 300-310 grain bullet.
I got that load from John Taffin's book Big Bore handguns, and also it is listed in an article by Brain Pearce in Handloader #241 on loading the different variations of the model 29. It is listed as a mid-range load by these gentlemen, running well under current SAAMI specs for the .44 magnum. It is the go to load for the older 4 & 5 screw guns used by Taffin, which should be treated more kindly due to their age.

I tried it in 2 of my .44's two weeks ago. The load was 10 grains of Unique under a 300 grain RNFP cast bullet that is identical in profile to the Speer 300 grain JFP in current production. I have no idea who made the mold for this bullet, since I bought these at a gunshow to try in place of the Speer bullet. I used CCI 300 primers, in W-W cases. The bullets were seated using their cannelure, which also happens to be loctaed the same as the Speer bullet.

I used my 6 1/2" 29 4 screw, and my 6" 629 P&R. I received an average for 10 shots from the 29 of 1085 fps @ 15', and 1090 fps from the 629 @ 15' from the muzzle. I fired the loads across my Oehler 35P. The ES ran 25 fps ave. for both guns, and the SD was 10 fps for both guns. It was no trick to keep 10 shots under 2" @ 25 yards from a makeshift rest either.


A 300 grain cast bullet at this speed will penetrate very well in any big game animal, and will out penetrate the 240 grain bullet. The recoil is well below that of factory or equivelent handloads.

It may be the load that does what you are trying to do in those lightweight guns, without causing any crimp jump trouble.;)
 
Last edited:
For my son's 329 I've been loading 9.8 grains of Unique under either a Speer 240gr JHP or JSP depending on what he's defending himself against. Chronoed right around 1050 outta his gun and shot to POA with the sights. It also isn't bad to shoot with these loads and one can almost stand to shoot more than one cylinder full at a time. I figure giving up a little speed is worth the price of an accurate second and third shot.
 
geomort said:
I loaded some 300 grain WFN 44 magnum bullet to test in the 329PD. These bullets were hard cast and sized .432 for a Marlin carbine. The crimp groove seating depth made them about .010 too long to fit the cylinder. What happened is the bullet ogive would hit the cylinder throat before the rim seated flush against the cylinder preventing closing the cylinder.

I seated the bullets .020 deeper and crimped into the lead with a collet crimping die. When fired they jumped crimp a bit but the hard lead bullet seated tight in the cylinder .010 and stopped pulling any farther. Had to tap out the rounds with a dowel to see how far they pulled but the were all the same .010. At least the velocities were about the same. Before each round dropped a bit in velocity as the bullets progressivly pulled.

I will have to see if the cylinder throats will hold jacketed bullets. Perhaps then I could roll a second channelure to hold the bullets right at the cylinder throat.

I read a report of factory ammo in the 329PD and the conclusion was that bullet pull was not an issue for six rounds anyway. So the factory has it figured out. Staying under 200 grains to prevent bullet pull recomended at one time. Three hundred grains is better for bear.
Click to expand...


I personally don't think what you are doing is safe - but maybe I'm over-reacting.

Your cylinder throat is likely .4295". You are expecting all to be well when you swage down your .432" bullet through the throat and into the forcing cone. Also you are hoping that all of the bullets are sized correctly (.432") so that the throat will hold them so they don't tie up the revolver.

I wouldn't push this combo with max loadings - I think the pressure might get dangerously high (but maybe I'm over-reacting).

You can use the Lee FC die to crimp into the lead - it might hold (but I doubt it). But when these bullets are gone I think you would be better served with a .430" sized, moderate hardness bullet with the crimp groove in the right place.

Jacketed bullets will not hold in the throat but most all have a nice fat cannelure to crimp into.

I'd like to point out that BB's "reduced recoil" 255gr load is pretty hot. I shoot 255gr @1200fps and it's a handful in the 329pd - I can't see how pushing that to 1280fps is "reduced recoil".




329pd information
 
Good afternoon
+1 on the "Stay away from MAX loads in a light weight revolver". There just is no reason to hot rod any revolver with all the BIG bore tools available today. I have a Titanium 41 mag 4 " barrel that I could shoot 280 grain cast out of ... BUT why? If I need a serious SMASHER revolver I will carry a 454 or larger. If there are Bears involved I will have a barrel that will launch .735 Round Ball at 1500+ Fps. A pump Mossy with an 18" barrel does not weigh much at all and will sure do a humdinger of a job in quick and lathal way.
 
As a previous poster mentioned, you are loading bullets that are way oversized for that revolvers cylinder throats. I'd bet that you cannot push a jacketed bullet sized at .430 through those holes. You state this application is for self-dense. I might suggest working up a load that you can crimp properly to provide 100% reliability. How about a good old 250 gr. Keith? You want good penetration? Get a box of 255 gr. WFNPB bullets from Cast Performance. These are LBT heat treated solids that shoot great in my 629's. I'm pretty sure these will go through any bear's noggin', and I guarantee you they will shoot MUCH TIGHTER groups than those rounds that you are currently fooling with.
 
Groo here
I would go to Penn bullets and get some 300 to 320 gr 44mag
SSK bullets.. Use the starting load that comes with the bullet,
That flat nose will fit your gun and is the same size as the Keith.
The crimp grove will hold well and they are hard cast...
You will not want to shoot many as they kick but they will drive deeply
Ps I would shoot lighter loads most of the time and the heavies only a few
at the end of a session
 
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