Notes on foreign primers...

Now, someone jump in and correct me where and if I am incorrect, but hopefully this will help others with some information I've had to learn the hard way over time.

Everyone is familiar with our domestic brands- Winchester, Remington, Federal and CCI, but the imported ones- not so much. I fell into the trap that a primer is a primer...well that isn't really the case.

• Murom Machine, Russia. Murom Apparatus producing plant - Primers

Murom primers are imported under their own name, and also by various importers- under the "Tula USA" and "Wolf" brands. They have the standard line up of primers (Large and small pistol, and large and small rifle, and 209's) but they are the only ones producing Berdan primers that are currently being imported into the US- namely under the "Tula" brand. Use caution in not confusing the "heavy metal free" primers for regular "non-corrosive" ones. The "toxic metal free" primers use a special mix which acts differently than regular lead styphnate primers and loads seem to behave differently. At least, they have for me. Also, the "toxic metal free" are reputed to not have as long a shelf life- but I don't know and haven't seen facts on it.
tulammousa.com WOLF Performance Ammunition - Home

• Fiocchi Munitions- Italy. Fiocchi Ammunition USA - Homepage

Fiocchi also makes the regular common stuff, and also the less common "toxic metal free" primers- see above note under Murom. All seem to be good, but the biggest thing to remember about primers from these guys- they come in 1500 count bricks- so be certain to know that when looking at their pricing- because they have half again more than a regular brick.

• PMC Ammunition (Poongsan Corporation)- Korea. Gun Ammunition, Handgun Ammo, Pistol, Rifle and Hunting Ammunition | PMC Ammunition: Precision Made Cartridges

I don't think anyone is importing any of it currently, but mostly what I've seen floating around at shops and even one feller dragging it to a show for $59. a brick has been their "green" primers. Same thing for these as all the other "toxic metal free" primers- use caution and work up!

• Magtech Ammuntion- Brazil. Magtech Ammunition, ammunition manufacturing, small caliber ammunition, hand gun ammo

They make the standard run of primers- other than sometimes they do import runs of "large" Berdan primers that *used* to fit their Berdan primed brass shotshell cases. The one thing to note is that these Berdan primers are thin though- and should only be used on those shotshell cases- never on rifle loads or the increased pressure will pierce the primer. Also note, that Magtech now owns S&B ammunition, and I haven't seen any S&B primers in a few years.

Lastly, I'm going to add that primer prices seem not to have stabilized- they are falling, and I don't think we've seen the bottom as yet. There is more supply now than demand- and I think that is somewhat of a good thing. The base at this time seems to be around $22-26. a brick for CCI, and that or less for the Russian labeled imports. I've got an inkling that it shortly may be the season for buying primers, and prices will moderate further toward the "pre-scare" price ranges.


Now, if there is more that should be mentioned that I either have incorrect, or didn't have enough, let me know.

FWIW, I went to a gunshow here in Denver over the weekend, and saw CCI and Winchester sp primers for sale for $27.00/1000, and the TULA for $22.50. I think you are correct about prices coming down, and think I'll stock up after the first of the year.

If some of you guys are up on the imported shotgun primers- please chime in, as I'm not up on those things as I've only dabbled at shotshell loading (Cheddite, Wolf, Nobelsport, etc...).

I wont buy foreign primers at any cost....mainly because those companys and countrys have QC thats almost non-existent.

Foreign ammo is a close second but I have bought ( and had no problem with) S&B ammo for my 45 ACP's.....but wouldnt buy WOLFF even at $5 a thousand rounds. Ive PERSONALLY watched that weird stuff go haywire on the firing line.

I just got done buying another 20,000 Wolfe Primers from Wideners. Average cost per 1000, $18.50.

I have used Wolfe since they hit the market and have had 1 FTF, 1.

Now, I have "several" rounds that are in "storage" so I cannot say that that is the only 1 that I will ever have but, it is the only one so far.

FWIW

p.s. I haven't bought ANY ammo except 22LR & 22Mag in more than a decade! My carry ammo is homemade too!

I don't have Smith Crazy's experience, but I've loaded and shot at least 3,000 Wolf primers (mostly LP and SP and a few hundred LR) without any haywireness. I find they need a little more force to seat, but no failures to fire.

I have been using Magtech SP for months. Shot a couple thousand. No difference that I can tell. About $20 a thousand.

PMC Primers, I don't think anyone is importing any of it currently, but mostly what I've seen floating around at shops and even one feller dragging it to a show for $59.

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I have to agree imported primers are not high on my "like" list. As for PMC primers being unavailable, Widener's has PMC #209 Primers available from time to time. Right now they are out of stock but they had them last week and will probably have them again next week.

I wont buy foreign primers at any cost....mainly because those companys and countrys have QC thats almost non-existent.

Foreign ammo is a close second but I have bought ( and had no problem with) S&B ammo for my 45 ACP's.....but wouldnt buy WOLFF even at $5 a thousand rounds. Ive PERSONALLY watched that weird stuff go haywire on the firing line.

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Foreign ammo is a slightly different matter than primers IMO. While I'm not crazy about Wolf ammo I have always had very good luck with PMC and Fiocchi ammo and with slightly lees satisfaction S&B ammo. While I'm not a fan of imported primers, imported ammo seems to be fine. I wouldn't hesitate to by Fiocchi ammo. I have chosen Fiocchi .32 Auto ammo as carry ammo for my Kel-Tec P-32. (Part #32APHP, not #32XTP)

I paid $22 a thousand at my local show this past saturday. No idea what Id have had to shell out if I got a quantity discount for buying 20K worth of primers.......but for $4 a K difference from Wolff to CCI brand....I'll fork over the $4.

Sully said:

I wont buy foreign primers at any cost....mainly because those companys and countrys have QC thats almost non-existent.

Foreign ammo is a close second but I have bought ( and had no problem with) S&B ammo for my 45 ACP's.....but wouldnt buy WOLFF even at $5 a thousand rounds. Ive PERSONALLY watched that weird stuff go haywire on the firing line.

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+1 on what Sully said except for those made in Spain and Italy and a select few other countries. I have actually visited the Murom facilities many times in years past. Their concept of QC is definitely not the same as it is in the western world. At least back when I was there.

I was once invited to shoot trap in Russia using Russian made shells. I kid you not, over 60% of the rounds did not go off - in four different guns and throughout several cases of shells!

Wolf

Wolf LR & LRM primers can be using in place of the CCI #34 Mil-Spec primer in semi-auto with free floating firing pins that require a harder primer cup.

The Wolf .223 SR primer is a excellent primer for hard to light ball powders it hotter than the stand Wolf SRM primer they also make a 5.56 SRM primer which is compatible with the CCI#41.

Speer/CCI

According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size. Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness. Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound. They can be used interchangeably.

I bought 2,000 PMC small pistol primers from Widener's earlier this year. Won't do that again. I can't remeber the last FTF with a domestic primer, but averaged about 1-2 per 100 with the PMC's. Using CCI's right now, and am a happy camper.

Chuck

I've shot several thousand Wolf SPP and LPP primers in the past couple of years and had no failures. I recently got some Tulas from PVI and loaded 100 into 9mm rounds and every one went boom.

I fired & loaded 1000s of Wolf & HMF primers without a any troulbe or complaints.

wolf primers

have been great for me

I'm wondering how many of the primer "failures" are user error??

ArchAngelCD said:

I'm wondering how many of the primer "failures" are user error??

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HEE HEE!!!!

ArchAngelCD said:

I'm wondering how many of the primer "failures" are user error??

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Probably not over 90 percent. Of course I am sure that no one here made a mistake. Their primer failures were in the the other 10 percent. Danged foreign junk!!

Yeah! And they are probably in the things we taught them to produce in the first place!

Creeker, no fair laughing!

Seriously, Wolf have had problems with their anvil staying in. When you open the box, all of them are staring you right in the face. Make a quick check and flip them right into your priming system from there. Since I load on a Dillon progressive, 99% of the time, it is simple thing to look, cover with the primer flipping device, flip the whole thing over and put them in the tube. If you don't check them, there may be no anvil (I've never had that happen though I have heard others did) then it gets installed in the primer pocket and it cannot go off. The one failure I had there was an anvil but it looked like the primer compound went off very lightly. Maybe it was a spent primer that didn't get knocked out.

Still, I am running pretty good odds with Wolf. At least 10,000 fired, 1 failure. I'm good with that.

So far all the Wolf anvils have been present & stayed put. I have noticed the LR Wolfs seperate their anvils when decapped from fired cases.