2400 in 38 special

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ialefty2

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Anybody use Alliant 2400 in 38 special with 158 gr lswc.

Alliant website lists 6.8 start to 7.5 grs max. 990 fps.

Any pros or cons?
 
There is some data out there for this combo, but IMO 2400 is too slow for 38 special. Stick with powders in the range of W231 and Unique for best results. Save the 2400 for 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum.
 
Great for semi-magnum 38/44's

2400 is great in .38 special for 38/44 Hi-Speed type loads for Outdoorsmen, Heavy Dutys and other larger or stronger guns. I get some of the best accuracy in my Outdoorsman/Heavy Duty revolvers with 2400 powder and Leadhead 168 gr. square-base Keith style SWC's.
 
Or a Chief's Special. From Sixguns, Elmer Keith, page 45
The little Chiefs Special has the new short action and the Centennial has an entirely new coil spring action, entirely double action. The Chiefs Special can be cocked and fired single action and is very accurate for its extremely light weight. Both arms are five-shot and both chambered for the .38 Special cartridge and while S. & W. do not advertise the fact, both guns will perfectly handle the .38/44 and other high speed ammunition in .38 Special. We recently made a test run of 500 rounds of this high speed ammunition through each of these guns with no ill effects we could detect either visually or by careful measurement of cylinders and rear ends of the barrels.
Click to expand...
 
There used to be some old manuals that gave up to 10grs under 160gr swc, and even more. That was in a time of less fear of law suits.
 
Yeah, like I said there's some data out there, even from the mighty Elmer Keith. But I wouldn't exactly call it up-to-date and safe. Keith's hot 2400 loads are historical record now, not good load data IMO.
 
Speer and Lyman both have published .38 spl. Loads with 2400 showing STANDARD pressures with around 10 grains under 158s. MANY sources have shown heavier charges as safe (though most are cautious about approving some of the Keith level loadings). I do not prefer 2400 in .38 spl-it costs more due to the heavier charge weights and leaves partially burned powder in the bore which can wind up under the extractor star and temporarily tie up the gun. However, I have shot some 2400 in my .38s and it performs just fine.
 
In years gone by I played with the older 2400 loads. 2400 seems too slow burning for .38 Special except when wound tight. It can give good, accurate results in .38 Special, though even the max loads seem sooty when fired and leave a lot of half-burned crumblies in the bore and on the cylinder face. Anything less than those old max loads gave large velocity variations and unsatisfactory performance.

I wouldn't bother with today's listed 2400 loads.
 
I have tried heavy charges of 2400 with the 158 gr. SWC in my 2" Model 60. Velocity was a bitter disappointment at well under 900 FPS. If you want to use 2400 in the .38 Special make sure you have a nice long barrel. SR4756 is good for at least 150 FPS more out of the snub.

Dave Sinko
 
I think this is one of those cases where it works, but there is something out there that is just as good as it if not better and that may cost less to use. Unless you got a lot of 2400 for free. Or just want to keep a minimum number of powders on the shelf to suit most of your needs and buy bigger containers of a particular favorite for economy. I certainly understand that concept since I use one fairly non-standard powder for nearly all of my general purpose handgun range/practice/cowboy action loads. It worked best for many of my load applications, and as good as or better than more traditional powders after some load development. If you shoot a whole lot of 44 or 357 Mag, hotter 44 Special, 38-44HV, etc. and prefer 2400 for that so you have a lot of it around, then it makes sense that you may want to use it for occasional 38SP.
 
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I agree with the majority - I've tried "modern" 2400 loadings under 158s in the .38 Special, and gotten wide spreads and unburnt powder all over everything.

I have had luck with 2400 (older load data, toward the max end of it) under heavy bullets in the .38: 195-grainers, some of Skip's 160-gr full wadcutter hardcasts. I still get the unburnt powder over everything, but the spreads and accuracy are good. I will certainly continue to use those loads.

Bryan said it best, though:

I wouldn't bother with today's listed 2400 loads.
Click to expand...
 
2400 is my go to powder for heavy 38 special loads. You need to use a heavy crimp for it to perform well. I keep my heavy 2400 loads away from my J frames and are only for use in modren K frames.
 
ialefty2 said:
Anybody use Alliant 2400 in 38 special with 158 gr lswc.

Alliant website lists 6.8 start to 7.5 grs max. 990 fps.

Any pros or cons?
Click to expand...
All Cons, no Pros IMO.

Cons:
I made up some .38 Special ammo using a 158gr LSWC and 2400, never again. As we know 2400 is a slow powder and I should have known better but of course I just had to try it. I got a TON of unburnt powder, so bad it got under the star ejector and bound the cylinder. It is very dirty and not all that accurate either. IMO it's a waste of good powder that can be used in the proper application.

Pros:
None...

Remember, back in the day there were very few powders available to reloaders. If you wanted more velocity without over pressure you had to use a slower powder but the limited powders of the day were wide apart. We now have dozens of powders with burn rates between W231 and 2400 which will work fine for +P pressures without all the problems associated with using 2400 or another powder in it's burn rate range in the .38 Special. (like HS-6, Longshot or Power Pistol)
 
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I have a couple N-frame 38 Specials (Heavy Dutys) and the only way to get anything like the original 38/44 loads is to use something like 2400. The original loads were rated at 1150 fps with a 158g lead SWC. You aren't going to come close to that with any of the currently published +P loads.

Dave

PS: I haven't chronographed the loads I've tried so far so I'm not giving out any load data. It is out there in older loading manuals if you are interested.
 
I keep my heavy 2400 loads away from my J frames and are only for use in modren K frames.
Click to expand...

OT (sorry): That's interesting, Bob - I feel like my J-38s are almost certainly stronger than my K-38s (amount of forcing cone in the cylinder window, thickness of cylinder at the bolt cut). Goes to show you that two sensible people can look at the same thing and nevertheless derive different opinions. :)

Now you all have me wondering about the old-time 2400-loads for the .38/158 that I passed by in my rush to play with SR 4756. ;)
 
Erich, you should check out Handloader #243 for Pearce's article on 38-44 HV loads. There are a few 38+P loads there but no mention of 2400. However, there are a number of 2400 loads in the 38-44HV table that yield some pretty impressive velocities. An advanced handloader should be able to extrapolate from those starting loads and current manual info for 38SP loads to arrive at something interesting ;).

I have to admit, since the 38-44 thread a couple of weeks ago I've been working on some 38-44HV loads to use in my SP101. No particular advantage over the 357Mag in that gun ... except it may be easier to eject empties as well as carry and load them from a Speed Strip or HKS. Could be interesting in some properly rated J-frame +P level applications.
 
I believe I have that article already, amigo, thanks to another friend here on the board. :) I have done my share of .38/44 playing in the past, for the heck of it and also for the reasons you mention. Might be time to do some more, just because!
 
Agree on saving the 2400 for magnum loads. In the .38, you can get the same velocities using a lot less Bullseye or Unique, and they will probably burn a bit more efficiently. So, cheaper and better than 2400. Decision? Don't get me wrong. I love it in .357 and .44 Mag. Not in .38.
 
Which powder would get around 950-1000 fps at +P or less pressure?
 
Power Pistol. HS6. (PowerPistol is magnificent for performance loads in .38 special.... but it can be a bit flashy.) Unique ain't too shabby either with the right charges.
 
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