AA#5 or AA#7 but not in any listed load data.
2400 in 38 special
- Thread starter ialefty2
- Start date
AA#5 or AA#7 but not in any listed load data.
Vulcan Bob
Member
OT (sorry): That's interesting, Bob - I feel like my J-38s are almost certainly stronger than my K-38s (amount of forcing cone in the cylinder window, thickness of cylinder at the bolt cut). Goes to show you that two sensible people can look at the same thing and nevertheless derive different opinions.
Now you all have me wondering about the old-time 2400-loads for the .38/158 that I passed by in my rush to play with SR 4756.
Hey Erich, It's not that I feel that the J's will blow up or anything but rather two factors, one is that the J's will "loosen up" with prolonged fireing with these loads (158gr), (this is purely a personel opinion with no real evidence) and the recoil is a bit punishing! Lets just say my loads were derived from the old Speer number eight manual and have been throtteled back a bit but still stout. With 2400 I have found that useing new to twice fired caseing's with a heavy crimp yeild's good accuracy and velocity, you get lousy results with a light crimp. As for the "unburnt powder", yes it's a dirty powder with lotsa residue to deal with, but not unmanageable. Yes it's true that we all have our view's on things!
Paul5388
US Veteran
Speer #7 only had two powders listed for the 158 gr LSWC, 2400 and Unique. The 12.0 gr of 2400 load was shot out of a 6" K-38 at 1100 fps. When you got to the half jackets, the powders expanded to include Al-8 and AL-5. I used 10.0 gr of AL-8 with the 146 gr HP in my Chief's Special. It was just a little bit faster than 11.0 gr of 2400. A set of Pachmayr's would have helped tame the recoil a little.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Like said, Power Pistol will probably get you there as will other powders of a similar burn rate like HS-6, Longshot and a few others.
IMO with a 158 LSWC bullet HS-6 will get you there with pressure to spare. I have developed a 158gr LSWC load that will achieve an AV of 972 fps from a 4" barrel using HS-6 but the load data isn't published so I won't post it. You can work up the load yourself using a chrono. Longshot will also get you there but I get poor accuracy when using Longshot with a Lead bullet in the .38 Special.
Erich
Member
I've shot Tony's HS-6 load with the 158s, and find it to be as advertised:
4" GP-100: M 966.5/ES 83.28/SD 32.77
3" S&W 36-1: M 887.0/ES 29.15/SD 11.40
2 1/8" DS: M 841.4/ES 24.07/ SD 8.88
This is right there with Bryan McGilvray's "TX FBI Load" (using Unique) in usefulness. A max load of Power Pistol works well also, but is flashy in the dark (the Unique load is not - can't speak as to the HS-6 loading on that issue). Here's a link on the PP performance from Pete's forum:
http://proguns.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ammo&action=display&thread=1480
4" GP-100: M 966.5/ES 83.28/SD 32.77
3" S&W 36-1: M 887.0/ES 29.15/SD 11.40
2 1/8" DS: M 841.4/ES 24.07/ SD 8.88
This is right there with Bryan McGilvray's "TX FBI Load" (using Unique) in usefulness. A max load of Power Pistol works well also, but is flashy in the dark (the Unique load is not - can't speak as to the HS-6 loading on that issue). Here's a link on the PP performance from Pete's forum:
http://proguns.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ammo&action=display&thread=1480
Last edited:
MakeMyNight
Member
IMO, 2400 is fine for potent 38spl loadings, intended for use in strong medium & large framed guns, but fwiw: Blue Dot will more than duplicate 2400's performance, using a smaller charge of powder.
Blue Dot also burns very cleanly, provides more bounce per dollar spent, plus magnum primers are never needed for this powder.
Just a thought.
Blue Dot also burns very cleanly, provides more bounce per dollar spent, plus magnum primers are never needed for this powder.
Just a thought.
Dave T
Member
Alliant (parent company for 2400) recommends standard primers for all applications with 2400. Old Elmer Keith also specified standard primers for his original 44 Mag loads with 2400.
Dave
Peter M. Eick
Member
Also remember that older primers were much milder then today's primers.
I have had decent luck with 2400 in the 38 special, but I like 4756 better so far. Plain old Unique works well if you use older data.
I have been using 5 grns of unique with a 158 for 30 years and after a period of "lack of confidence" where I used current book load data I went back. The funny thing is that when I shoot 5 grns of unique, it is clean, no problems and my 38/44's love it. Same thing happens with 2400 and 4756 if you use older data.
I have had decent luck with 2400 in the 38 special, but I like 4756 better so far. Plain old Unique works well if you use older data.
I have been using 5 grns of unique with a 158 for 30 years and after a period of "lack of confidence" where I used current book load data I went back. The funny thing is that when I shoot 5 grns of unique, it is clean, no problems and my 38/44's love it. Same thing happens with 2400 and 4756 if you use older data.
Erich
Member
Works like that for me, too. Handload like it's Nineteen-Sixty-Nine!
bmcgilvray
Member
Works like that for me, too. Handload like it's Nineteen-Sixty-Nine!
"He said, "We haven't had that spirit here since 1969"
The Lyman Handbook 45th Edition lists 5.4 grains of Unique as a max load with a 158 grain cast bullet in .38 Special. I loaded a lot of them back in the late 70's and it is a good load. Recently, I went back to it using a SWC bullet that actually casts out at around 154 grains. I have chronographed it from my Model 60-7 at 880 fps. (The data was tested for the Manual in a 6" K-.38; reported velocity was 1000 fps.) I will eventually check it out in my 8 3/8" 14-3, and would also like to try a reasonable load of 2400 in that long tube as well. Good luck.
Paul5388
US Veteran
I checked some Unique loads at 5.5 gr with a 158 gr LSWC (by LAH/Creeker) and got 950-1000 fps with 4" barrels. Some of the Unique I used was made in the 1940s and some was from 2005. There was about 25-30 fps difference between the two lots.
Using the same bullet and gun (4" M66-2), 9.0 gr of SR 4756 produces 1200 fps and 13.5 gr of 2400 produces 1260 fps. Switching to a 358156, 9.0 gr of SR 4756 drops to 1180 fps.
Using the same bullet and gun (4" M66-2), 9.0 gr of SR 4756 produces 1200 fps and 13.5 gr of 2400 produces 1260 fps. Switching to a 358156, 9.0 gr of SR 4756 drops to 1180 fps.
bmcgilvray
Member
Your velocity figures look to be about the same as mine using the same load from barrels of the same length.
It will be noted that one will have to get up pretty early in the morning AND bring his lunch in order to equal or beat the velocity of the Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain SWC-HP loading with a handload of any kind.
From my Model 14 with 8 3/8-inch barrel:
MV 1286 fps
ME 580 ft./lbs.
ES 28
SC 13
Totally agree...there is no reason to take a chance stirring up something when there are proven safe loads like BB available when such power is needed.
I would like to see some pressure data on the BB 158swchp +P, and 11gr 2400. If H. P. White would test them both, I think it might be eye opening.
bmcgilvray
Member
It's been long years since I did my 2400 testing in .38 Special but I remember that the empty cases distinctly showed more signs of pressure in the form of flattened primers than the Buffalo Bore +P loads do. I realize that there is more to high pressure than indications by flat primers is going to reveal but it's a start.
Using the Lyman 358156 HP, I got back to the range last week and checked out the above load of Unique from my 8 3/8" 14-3. A 10-shot average was 1019 fps, so a gain of only 140 fps in 6"+ more barrel. That didn't surprise me since Unique is faster burning and more suited to shorter barrels. I also tried out 2400 using an 11.0 grain load (max) also recommended in the Lyman 45th Edition. A 10-shot average with that was 1109 fps. There was a little unburned powder, but not enough to worry about. The cases ejected easily and the primers appeared normal. I fired a few of them at small objects on the berm at 60 yards and based on the dirt they threw up they must have still been moving right along; accurate, too. I think I will keep some of those on hand from now on. .
I have a 42nd Edition of the Lyman Manual (copyright 1960). With the above bullet, they recommend 13.5 grains of 2400 but in "Heavy Frame Guns Only". My favorite load of 2400 with a 158 grain SWC in .357 Magnum is 14.0 grains (1216 fps from 4" 686), so I think they are right about that.
I love reading that old 42nd edition. There is a section where they have published customers' favorite loads and comments about same.
That was a different time
.RDub
Member
Hi
Jumpin on this a bit late...
2400 makes a good +P load for .38 Special with 158gr bullets.
9.0 grs does about what a factory 158gr +P will do (890 fps) out of my 4" 686.. Ck out target #27
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f218/rafswede/01-13-08.jpg
Some other loads I was playin with do well also..
Jumpin on this a bit late...
2400 makes a good +P load for .38 Special with 158gr bullets.
9.0 grs does about what a factory 158gr +P will do (890 fps) out of my 4" 686.. Ck out target #27
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f218/rafswede/01-13-08.jpg
Some other loads I was playin with do well also..
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Did you read the rest of this thread? Do you really think 2400 is a good choice of powder for loading .38 Special +P ammo??
Similar threads
