.38 Special and 2400 powder
- Thread starter Doug.38PR
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^^^^^^^^^^parabarbarian
Member
That is my standard 38 spl load for an Xtreme plated 158 gr SWC. From a 686+ w/3" bbl, my chronograph tells me the average MV = 834 fps, SD = 13 fps.
Duplicating BB's load and staying within published limits has proven difficult. In fact, I don't know of anyone who has done it.
sunday bill
Member
I own a J-frame Centennial (640 no dash) that shot 158 grain cast bullets unacceptably low and grouped them poorly with every factory and powder/handload I tried.
Hodgdon Powder No. 27 Data Manual, in its 38 Special+P section, page 75, lists a 160 gr. JSP in front of 7.8 grains of 2400 at 910 fps/17,500 PSI. It also lists a 200 gr. LRN in front of 7.1 gr. 2400 at 890 fps/17,500 PSI.
I had some cast Valiant 180 grain TFPs that I loaded into 38 Special cases with 7.3 grains 2400, a standard small Federal pistol primer, and crimped'em in the crimping groove. Problem solved. They shoot into a ragged hole about 1/2" below p.o.a., off-hand, at 21 feet, recoil pleasantly, extract easily, and show no visible pressure signs. I haven't chronographed'em yet but will do so and report here.
They print tight groups about 2 to 3 inches high at the same distance out of my 60-9 .357 mag J-frame. It prefers 11 grains 2400 and the Lyman 358156 gc, loaded in 38 Special brass, and crimped in the forward grease groove. However, I no longer load that round for fear of my wife unknowingly loading them in her Airweight. The mag'll have to make do with loads in mag brass.
Flame away about 2400's huge ball a'fire when fired in low-light situations, but I've seen enough out of the big bullet and the old powder to take my chances. 2400 may not be everyone's 38+P powder and it aint mine in every gun I own, but it's just what the doctor ordered in this little J-frame.
Hodgdon Powder No. 27 Data Manual, in its 38 Special+P section, page 75, lists a 160 gr. JSP in front of 7.8 grains of 2400 at 910 fps/17,500 PSI. It also lists a 200 gr. LRN in front of 7.1 gr. 2400 at 890 fps/17,500 PSI.
I had some cast Valiant 180 grain TFPs that I loaded into 38 Special cases with 7.3 grains 2400, a standard small Federal pistol primer, and crimped'em in the crimping groove. Problem solved. They shoot into a ragged hole about 1/2" below p.o.a., off-hand, at 21 feet, recoil pleasantly, extract easily, and show no visible pressure signs. I haven't chronographed'em yet but will do so and report here.
They print tight groups about 2 to 3 inches high at the same distance out of my 60-9 .357 mag J-frame. It prefers 11 grains 2400 and the Lyman 358156 gc, loaded in 38 Special brass, and crimped in the forward grease groove. However, I no longer load that round for fear of my wife unknowingly loading them in her Airweight. The mag'll have to make do with loads in mag brass.
Flame away about 2400's huge ball a'fire when fired in low-light situations, but I've seen enough out of the big bullet and the old powder to take my chances. 2400 may not be everyone's 38+P powder and it aint mine in every gun I own, but it's just what the doctor ordered in this little J-frame.
keith44spl
Member
With only 45 years of hand-loading experience. I have found;
What with each firearm having it's own individual threshold in respect to the chamber pressures limits to that specific firearm.
I have found that pressure tolarances vary from firearm to firearm.
The desired level of ft lbs of energy / fps of velocity for your application may be achieved by carefully
working up to that level of performance with a combination of different components.
If you reach pressure levels equal to or above that of what the firearm will tolerate you will see the signs,
flattened primers, difficult extraction of cartridge cases, pierced or blown primer and
excessive case head expansion or case head separation.
Having tried jest 'bout all the popular powders for pistol cartridges,
I have found that Unique and 2400 to fit the bill 99% of the time.
They just suit me right down to the ground.
I've loaded 38, 357, 44 Special and the 44 Magnum from mild to the serious...I have never had a firearm failure, period.
Oh, I'll admit that some of the 44 Mag. loads were on the border of the red line for
silhouette shooting at those 50 lbs. steel rams at 200 meters.
Those 29-2 had to be tuned on purty often...
For an improved performance 38 Special load to be used in modern 38-44 and 38 Spl./357 mag. revolvers,
My load of the hard cast 358429 sized .357 over a healthy dose of 2400 just flat works for me.
(The Lyman 45 Edition list a max. of 10.5 grains of 2400 under the above bullet. And a max. load of 11 grains for a 158 grain cast using #2 alloy)
Your experience may vary...
After y'all load up and shoot a few thousand of a specific load, let's hear how that goes.
Su Amigo,
Dave
What with each firearm having it's own individual threshold in respect to the chamber pressures limits to that specific firearm.
I have found that pressure tolarances vary from firearm to firearm.
The desired level of ft lbs of energy / fps of velocity for your application may be achieved by carefully
working up to that level of performance with a combination of different components.
If you reach pressure levels equal to or above that of what the firearm will tolerate you will see the signs,
flattened primers, difficult extraction of cartridge cases, pierced or blown primer and
excessive case head expansion or case head separation.
Having tried jest 'bout all the popular powders for pistol cartridges,
I have found that Unique and 2400 to fit the bill 99% of the time.
They just suit me right down to the ground.
I've loaded 38, 357, 44 Special and the 44 Magnum from mild to the serious...I have never had a firearm failure, period.
Oh, I'll admit that some of the 44 Mag. loads were on the border of the red line for
silhouette shooting at those 50 lbs. steel rams at 200 meters.
Those 29-2 had to be tuned on purty often...
For an improved performance 38 Special load to be used in modern 38-44 and 38 Spl./357 mag. revolvers,
My load of the hard cast 358429 sized .357 over a healthy dose of 2400 just flat works for me.
(The Lyman 45 Edition list a max. of 10.5 grains of 2400 under the above bullet. And a max. load of 11 grains for a 158 grain cast using #2 alloy)
Your experience may vary...
After y'all load up and shoot a few thousand of a specific load, let's hear how that goes.
Su Amigo,
Dave
I loaded .38 special with 160 gr SWC and 2400 in the '70's and but lost my data. It was hot and I painted the tip red. I put many rds through my model 60 with no problems. I learned you "work up" a load for your pistol. That is what reloading is all about, not what is in the manual. The data in the manual is for reference and must be approached with some common sense. The first part of the manual goes through the steps and proper procedures. That info is what keeps you safe.
I just put a 158 gr Midway LSWC through my Colt Official Police 4 inch with 6.0 grains of Power Pistol behind it (maximum Speer load). As hot a .38 Special load as I've shot so far. Put it in the cylinder with another round with 5.2 grains of Unique (maximum Speer load) and a round of 4.0 grains of Unique. Needless to say the 4.0 Unique was pretty tame, but 5.2 Unique was pretty vicious....but the Power Pistol 6.0 was slightly tougher and felt pretty impressive....that is until I dropped a Remington LHP +P into the gun and fired it....if both the Power Pistol 6.0 and the Remington had been in the gun at the same time....I'd swear they were they same. It was after sundown so I couldn't use my chronograph. I don't know which one was faster (if any) but I plan on taking the chronograph out with another load to see
Paul5388
US Veteran
I clocked a 158 gr Dry Creek LSWC at 980fps using 5.5 gr of Unique out of a 4" M&P from 1949. That's a pretty good ways from the .38-44 load you were looking for.
speaking strictly as a beginner to all this, isn't it dangerous to exceed maximum published loads from the reloading manuel? 5.5 is 0.3 grains above the maximum Speer and Hornandy manuel.
Even if I can't get to .38-44/Buffalo Bore speeds, I'd CERTAINLY like to exceed modern factory loads
Even if I can't get to .38-44/Buffalo Bore speeds, I'd CERTAINLY like to exceed modern factory loads
Paul5388
US Veteran
At your stage in the game, it's probably best to stick with what you have. It'll probably do everything you want to do and then some.
If you're anywhere close to Shreveport we might be able get together for some shooting (bull or bullets)
If you're anywhere close to Shreveport we might be able get together for some shooting (bull or bullets
)38 Special +P Load Data - Handloads.Com
The top of this list that 2400 listing says it's 17400 psi. That's standard .38 isn't it? If the PSI is that load...you certainly can go up into +P territory (around 20,000 psi) correct? (of course this sounds like what Saxon Pig has been saying all along)
The top of this list that 2400 listing says it's 17400 psi. That's standard .38 isn't it? If the PSI is that load...you certainly can go up into +P territory (around 20,000 psi) correct? (of course this sounds like what Saxon Pig has been saying all along)
At your stage in the game, it's probably best to stick with what you have. It'll probably do everything you want to do and then some.
If you're anywhere close to Shreveport we might be able get together for some shooting (bull or bullets
Yeah for now, I want to stick with what is published by companies and reloading manuels. I might just try the above 2400 load at some point.
You live around Henderson from what your location says. Rusk Co. (I've worked over there in your courthouse) That's a few hours from Shreveport.
Paul5388
US Veteran
It's only 65 miles from where I am in south Rusk County to the VA in Shreveport.
Try the 7.8 gr load referenced in Handloads.com, but clock it to see if it's anywhere close to what Alliant says and don't use the one I posted right under it.
Try the 7.8 gr load referenced in Handloads.com, but clock it to see if it's anywhere close to what Alliant says and don't use the one I posted right under it.
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olskool
Member
2400 is an ok powder for special loads. i have many diffrent powders that i have tested 38s with. for accuracy + heat i found nothing better than unique. i use for a max load 5.5 gr. with a lyman 155gr. hp. and 5.gr with a 158gr. cast lead. all with a std. primer. it don't get no gooder than dat.
Paul5388
US Veteran
I used a 4" M66-1 to clock that load. I am part of the admin, so the note was just to let people know it isn't a load for just any gun. Besides, where else is there to post loads like that other than the +P section? The criteria for posting loads, when we were still allowing it, was being able to find that load published in a reloading manual.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The problem with using 2400 at such low pressures is 2400 like most slow powders doesn't like low pressures. You will get erratic velocities and accuracy. You will also get a lot of unburnt powder. I tried it, it just doesn't work.
On the other hand, with the proper charge of HS-6 (not in the book) I have generated an average velocity of 890fps from a 2" barrel with a 158gr LSWC/HP bullet. It can be done with the correct powder and charge without exceeding 20,000 psi.
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Paul5388
US Veteran
Here's some older data, like 1961, that has pressure data too. R.D=red dot and BULL=Bullseye.
BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #5, Speer Inc, 1961 :: aab
Here's some 1970 2" barrel data, but it doesn't have pressure data.
BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #8, Speer Inc, 1970 :: aan
BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #5, Speer Inc, 1961 :: aab
Here's some 1970 2" barrel data, but it doesn't have pressure data.
BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #8, Speer Inc, 1970 :: aan
Paul5388
US Veteran
I found this quote from Ed Harris this morning and thought I would share it.
Ed Harris is a very respectable and reliable source....but it seems odd that 10 grains is purportedly producing higher pressures than numerous old sources reported with 11 grains of 2400. ( I know that some incluiding Ed H have reported that modern 2400 is "quicker" but I struggle with unbelief.)
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