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01-07-2011, 08:57 PM
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Mid Range .357 Load With 158gr. SWC
It's been 10-12 years since I loaded some .357 but since I just bought 2 L frames I figure it's time to get back to it . I want to shoot cast lead 158 gr. SWC's at a true 950 -1000 fps which I feel is a goog mid range velocity . The powders I have are; Unique, 2400, Universal Clays, 231 .
Anybody have pet loads using these powders that have been chronographed at this velocity ? Again I'll only be using hard cast 158 gr. SWC's .
Thanks in advance,
Nick
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01-07-2011, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick B
I want to shoot cast lead 158 gr. SWC's at a true 950 -1000 fps which I feel is a goog mid range velocity . The powders I have are; Unique, 2400, Universal Clays, 231 .
Nick
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Perfect . 7.0grs UNIQUE and 10-11grs 2400 will give you some nice mid-range loads that are great to shoot with that bullet.
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01-07-2011, 09:25 PM
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VERY MILD 357 LOAD
I use 6.0 - 6.3 grains of Unique with 158 grain RNL bullets and out of my 6" M586 and I get just over 1,000 fps. (standard small pistol primers). This will not usually lead the barrel with hard cast bullets. Ballistics should be pretty much the same with 158 grain LSWC bullets. This is a very very mild 357 load, not much more than 38 special.
If you are shooting these from a 4" BBL, velocities will drop 50 - 75 fps.
enjoy,
chief38
Last edited by chief38; 01-07-2011 at 09:29 PM.
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01-07-2011, 09:47 PM
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Go with Unique, 6.5gr or so will get you a great shooting load.
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01-07-2011, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88
Go with Unique, 6.5gr or so will get you a great shooting load.
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Have you chronographed that ?
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01-07-2011, 09:57 PM
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I am sure Unique or 2400 will give you what you want. I suggest you check a couple of manuals.
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01-07-2011, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick B
Have you chronographed that ?
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Yup, 6.5gr gives 1110 fps in my 6" bbl. Recoil still at the "fun" level but accuracy is excellent.
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01-07-2011, 10:50 PM
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6.0gr of WW231 gives me just a bit above 1000 fps using 158gr LSWC's in my 6" 357 Mag S&W. It's also considerably cleaner than the Unique loads.
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01-07-2011, 11:08 PM
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12.0 grains of 2400 is a nice load. Personally my 13.0 grain 2400 loads behind the 158 grain SWC's isn't that bad in a 3 1/2 inch N frame. Mild recoil and mild report.
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01-07-2011, 11:31 PM
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+1 for that 6.5 of unique shoots great out of all of my 3 inchers.
Pete
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01-08-2011, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88
Yup, 6.5gr gives 1110 fps in my 6" bbl. Recoil still at the "fun" level but accuracy is excellent.
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One of my more accurate loads in my 586 is 7.5 gr. Unique behind the RCBS 150 gr. SWC. It's easy to hold 6" groups at 100 yards off a bench or truck hood.
But based on the above chrono reading, it may be hotter than I thought. It's nice to shoot, though, out of the 6" 586 and doesn't lead.
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01-08-2011, 01:07 AM
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My most accurate (and mild) .357 load is 11.5gr 2400 behind a 158gr plated RNFP from Xtreme. Can't tell 'ya the exact OAL right now, but those particular Xtreme bullets have a cannelure, so I just seat them to the top of it. I have always read that plated bullets are closer to lead than FMJ bullets as far as loads and performance are concerned. These are very accurate out of my 6" 686+.
The few other powders that I have used for .357 don't even come close to what the 2400 load does for me.
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01-08-2011, 03:18 AM
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I agree with the others, Unique will give you what you're looking for and I'll add, so will Universal. If you're willing to but another powder HS-6 will do a great job for the .357 Magnum and lead bullets.
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01-09-2011, 01:17 PM
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Todays reloading manuals must be more conservative than older ones. My Speer #9 shows a max charge of 7 gr of Unique with the 158 gr bullet but, the #14 manual only shows 6 gr as max. Sign of the times, I suppose.
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01-09-2011, 04:04 PM
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I shot a bunch of 357, 158 SWC loads with 5grs of HP 38/W231 the other day. It's the max load per Hodgdons. They shot well but as far as I could tell, it was pretty much a 38 special. I did not Chrono them but I would not consider it a "Mag" load. This is out of a MP R8
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01-09-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCD1
I shot a bunch of 357, 158 SWC loads with 5grs of HP 38/W231 the other day. It's the max load per Hodgdons. They shot well but as far as I could tell, it was pretty much a 38 special. I did not Chrono them but I would not consider it a "Mag" load. This is out of a MP R8
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That Max charge isn't because of pressure, it's because they want to minimize the chance of leading the barrel or causing the bullet to fail. The reported pressure is 23,900 CUP which is barely over .38 Special +P pressure limits of 20,000 PSI. That would explain it feeling like a .38 Special round.
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01-09-2011, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColColt
Todays reloading manuals must be more conservative than older ones. My Speer #9 shows a max charge of 7 gr of Unique with the 158 gr bullet but, the #14 manual only shows 6 gr as max. Sign of the times, I suppose.
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My guess is they are keeping the velocity down to prevent leading. Alliant is about the same on their max loads with lead bullets.
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01-09-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD
That Max charge isn't because of pressure, it's because they want to minimize the chance of leading the barrel or causing the bullet to fail. The reported pressure is 23,900 CUP which is barely over .38 Special +P pressure limits of 20,000 PSI. That would explain it feeling like a .38 Special round.
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These are Missouri BC hard (18BHN) cast bullets. I spoke with Brad a while back and he said he could make them in the softer (12 BHN) alloy and I would get less leading at target velocity loads. I seldom load them up at full Mag loads with 2400 or H110. Plus I do not know what bullet Hodgdon uses to test, A lot of their data is the same as Speer (or vice versa)and and Speer bullet is a swagged bullet I believe?, so what you said is most likely the reason.
I have Unique but it does not seem to meter as consistently as the Hp 38 or the Win Auto Comp I am trying out. It is pretty much the same (texture/size) as Blue Dot and does not run through the Lee Pro Auto Disk as well.
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01-09-2011, 11:22 PM
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I've been happy with 6.0 grains of Unique with a generic 158 grain LSWC. [Usually Zero or Space Coast]
Has performed well in a variety of .357s. Mild by magnum standards but has been accurate and mostly free of leading in my guns. Besides since I'm generally only punching holes in paper, I don't feel the need for full magnum level performance.
Haven't done a chrony check on them yet but according to my old Speer manual, they should be right in the ball park of your speed range.
Same bullets loaded to milder standards for .38 specials quickly show considerable lead build-up. I think this moderately higher pressure level is about perfect for them.
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01-10-2011, 12:35 AM
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I use 6.2 of unique on top of a 158gr. RN or SWC out of a 586 4" with 945 fps average, as Chief38 states a 6" will produce a bit more velocity.
Its a go easy load for every day shootin in my book
Joe
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01-10-2011, 12:44 AM
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I use 5.0 grains of Unique behind a 158 grain lead SWC, put up in .357 Magnum cases for a muzzle velocity of 933 fps from a 6-inch Model 27. Fine accuracy and clean shooting for my purposes.
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01-14-2011, 08:36 PM
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Searching for a post just like this. Mostly been shooting .38 special through the .357's, but want to move up to the .357 brass for cleanliness, but don't need the Magnum aspect. Guess I just need to drive the 2 miles to Starline Brass and get a few thousand and some .357 dies.
Guess I was smarter than I thought - an inspection of my lightly used reloading supplies shows a set of dies for .38 Special/.357 in carbide and the conversion kit for the 1050. SWC's and brass is all I need!
Last edited by Flint Ridge; 01-14-2011 at 08:47 PM.
Reason: I found dies I did not know I had - sweet!
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01-15-2011, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCD1
These are Missouri BC hard (18BHN) cast bullets. I spoke with Brad a while back and he said he could make them in the softer (12 BHN) alloy and I would get less leading at target velocity loads. I seldom load them up at full Mag loads with 2400 or H110. Plus I do not know what bullet Hodgdon uses to test, A lot of their data is the same as Speer (or vice versa)and and Speer bullet is a swagged bullet I believe?, so what you said is most likely the reason.
I have Unique but it does not seem to meter as consistently as the Hp 38 or the Win Auto Comp I am trying out. It is pretty much the same (texture/size) as Blue Dot and does not run through the Lee Pro Auto Disk as well.
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You can push those bullets much harder than "normal" lead bullets. I'm betting you can go to 1200+ fps without leading with an 18 BHN bullet.
BTW, I wouldn't use H110/W296 with lead bullets because that powder burns much too hot for lead IMO. 2400 on the other hand is just fine as is Unique, Universal and especially HS-6.
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01-15-2011, 10:54 AM
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I use the following load in IDPA, IPSC, and Steel Challenge in my S&W 686-3 4". 3.0 grains of Clays; 158 RNL; and Winchester small pistol primers. It's very accurate, burns clean, and very economical.
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01-15-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD
You can push those bullets much harder than "normal" lead bullets. I'm betting you can go to 1200+ fps without leading with an 18 BHN bullet.
BTW, I wouldn't use H110/W296 with lead bullets because that powder burns much too hot for lead IMO. 2400 on the other hand is just fine as is Unique, Universal and especially HS-6.
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I loaded up 50 of the 158 gr lswc with 6.0 grs of the Win Auto Comp I am trying out. By the load data it should be just a little more velocity than the HP 38.I can go a little higher but these are in the 357 brass I broke down and I do not know what primer is in them, may be mag primers(but I suppose 6 grs of HP 38 would also )
I have used these bullets with 2400 as I prefer it to H110 as I can down load it and use regular primers, I save the H110 for my 30 carbine loads and Gold Dots or XTP handgun loads.
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01-30-2011, 04:22 PM
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Just to resurrect this thread for a couple questions. I want to try 6.5 gr of Unique in the 357 case but I have some Missouri BHN 12 and 18 bullets in 158 gr and not sure if the 12 would be a better bet at the velocity I'll get with the Unique load. I'm thinking the BHN 12 would be best since the other is harder and more inclined to magnum velocity. Is this a good assumption?
Secondly, would a load of 7.-7.5 gr of HS-6 with this same bullet be a good starter? Not a great deal of info in the manuals about this powder/bullet combo.
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01-30-2011, 04:58 PM
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Alliants max for Unique and a Speer 158 gr is 6.0 gr. I think the Speer bullet is a soft swagged bullet (not sure)
You may get 1000 fps out of it so I think the softer (12) bullets would be fine. I have both of those bullets and use the soft ones in 38 special. So yes, I think the same as you are. Can't say on the HS6 as never used it.
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01-30-2011, 05:14 PM
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I've read somewhere that Speer and probably Hornady as well, use a BHN 10 hardness. That would account for their more conservative loads.
I'm giving thought of getting quickLOAD software which I feel would help immensely with things as this. HS-6 is a great powder but little data for cast bullets, I've found.
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01-30-2011, 07:05 PM
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It may or may not. It can only predict results based on past data or whatever is programed into it. It is not a actual test of each and every bullet with every powder charge. It only interpolates what it should be.
I think your load with the 12 bhn will be fine. What length barrel?
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01-30-2011, 09:13 PM
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Barrel length is 3 inch. I know I'll probably loose about 100 fps over a 4 inch barrel but that's the price you pay for a "shorty". I'm still interested in a medium load with HS-6 as it's also one of my top favorite powders with the 45 ACP. With 8.2 gr of HS-6 and a 230 gr FMJ for practice it gives superb groups.
My old 2nd Edition Pacific manual shows 6-8.0 gr of HS-6 with this bullet but that manual is older than most on the forum. Speer's #9 manual also list 8 gr as max but, it's an old one as well.
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01-30-2011, 09:37 PM
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I was at a bowling pin match in the late 70s. Some Louisiana State Police officers were shooting 358429s over 7.0gr Unique seated in the crimp groove in mag cases, K-frames. The noise level, and recoil seemed well within parrameters, and pins did fly.................
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