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Small game 357 mag loads

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ShinySix

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I was thinking of using a 686 6" for rabbit hunting. I would think a 110 gr. lswchp would be ideal for this but I'm not finding the bullet or the load data. The best I can find is a 158 gr. lswchp and data for 700-750 fps. I'll be using 357 mag brass.

Due to regulations I have to use expanding bullets. I asked a local DNR officer if cast, non hp bullets fit the bill and he said "I'm not sure." I don't want to run into trouble so the bullet needs to be hp.

I know a .22 or 20 ga would be ideal but I like a challenge.
 
If you can, then I would probably go with cast wadcutters and target loads. Other than that, perhaps something like the classic Hornady or Speer 158 LSWC-HPs downloaded to target loads. They can be pretty accurate, but if you drive them too fast the terminal results will be about the same as 110s driven fast. It may be easier to get an accurate "target" velocity load with them.

Strange comment about the requirement for expanding bullets, particularly for small game with a centerfire revolver.
Perhaps that is for big game only? I suspect that is the regulation he is quoting.
Most regulations for hunting with pistols and revolvers are divided by big and small game requirements, with rimfire (22) being specified for small game. They do not want someone hunting big game with 9, 40 or 45ACP FMJs.
 
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This may be totally off the wall...But...I have found almost any 148gn HBWC, plated or swedged to be very accurate...They will still fly when seated backwards...I know this because on occasion I will seat one backwards, won't pull it because it'll work...

148s.jpg


148gn Hornady HBWC over 231
357 brass
B3 target at 50yd
Scoped 627 x 6"
(These were seated correctly)
 
If you must use a HP bullet and want to use a 110gr bullet I would go with a Hornady XTP bullet because it's a tough bullet that will penetrate.

For accuracy I would back off the Max charge suggested in the load data and go with the starting charge. That will push a 110gr bullet fast enough for small game in a .357 Magnum.
 
Rabbits will drop dead from a loud noise. I don't think 110gr .357 is really necessary. I've killed dozens with a .20 pump pellet rifle, 15gr at 600 fps. Any .357 load that doesn't stick in the barrel would work. Make it an hollow point if that's what the DNR insists on. Now that I'm older and wiser, I'd make sure they can run, which translates to a shotgun of any bore. A sick rabbit can ruin your whole day, and then some.
 
Use a standard SWC, take one with you that you put in a vise and show that it expanded if you are questioned on your choice of ammo. 22 LR will kill rabbits dead, 38 wadcutters will as well.
 
I use my standard 38 spl plinking loads with a hard cast 158 gr RN
at about 725 fps in a 4" barrel. I have tried shooting groups side by
side with similar loads in 38 brass and mag brass and seen very little
difference in accuracy. It doesn't take much to kill rabbits, you don't
need HPs.
 
Thanks for the replies. I still have some 148 hbwc that I've used over 3.3 gr. of Bullseye in mag brass. Those things are pretty soft so I think I can get away with the whole expanding bullet problem.
 
why 110 G?
if you build up a proper bunny buster in something a bit more substantial you have a more versatile load on your hands.
its a velocity game with small game loads, everything will over penetrate so the speed does all the work. you'll likely find yourself in the 800 - 900 FPS range when all is said and done ... if that velocity is on a 158 grain bunny torpedo .. you might find it handy for other things in need of service, like yotes, thugs and import cars.
 
Berry makes a 125 gr. HP plated bullet, it should not be to hard to find data to meet your needs.

ShinySix said:
Thanks for the replies. I still have some 148 hbwc that I've used over 3.3 gr. of Bullseye in mag brass. Those things are pretty soft so I think I can get away with the whole expanding bullet problem.
Click to expand...

I would not knowingly violate a law. The following is worth considering.

Could this kind of violation lead to the firearm being confiscated until settled or just a citation?
 
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Or.....buy a Mdl 17, which will nicely match up with your 686....use HP .22 bullets.

Now you have an excuse to get a cool vintage Smith....:D
 
I would read up on Elmer Keith's tests with the first .357 Magnum and the fact he tested it on jackrabbits. Do you plan on eating these animals? He found that hollowpoints were very destructive at those higher Magnum velocities. I would think a 110 grain JHP would probably be serious overkill on a rabbit. It was also the same when tested in a few grouse as well later on in some of his writings. If you forced to use a hollowpoint, I would use a cast JHP but I would make it from wheelweights and then water dunk them so that they would be hard enough that you would not get the expansion. Rabbits don't take alot to kill so I would use .38 Specials to do the job. My Outdoorsman's loads are a 125 grain SWC and a small charge of either Unique or win. 231. I have not tried these on rabbits (none to speak of here) but with my bullets all I want is a small hole in and one out.
 
If you want an expanding bullet that won't expand, use a "reluctant" expander, like an XTP, at maybe 700 FPS. It comes in two flavors, JHP and FP. I am not sure if the FP would be considered an expander, but it is less likely to do so than the HP. They won't expand at that speed, or, probably quite a bit fasterr, but it will make the warden happy. Or one of the harder SWC-HP's, not Remington.

rat
 
NOTE:
Do NOT try to drive jacketed bullets a low speed. That is a recipe for a stuck bullet.

I have shot many a rabbit (both cottontails and snow shoe rabbits) for the table. I have used a variety of handguns (from .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, .44 Special, and .45's). I use a home cast bullet at target velocities. It they are close, I shoot them in the head. If they are at, say, 25 yards, I shoot them through the slats. Either way, an instant kill, and no meat damage. Just explain to the game warden that an all lead bullet expands.

I use either a wadcutter (.32 and .38) or a SWC.

FWIW
Dale53
 
Berry 125 HPs. Cheap and cheap is always useful.....
 
"NOTE:
Do NOT try to drive jacketed bullets a low speed. That is a recipe for a stuck bullet."

Understood, but slow is relative. If the bullet leaves the barrel at 700 FPS, it wont stick. But, I do like the lead idea the best.

rat
 
"Berry 125 HPs. Cheap and cheap is always useful....."


Yes, probably the best compromise in this situation. I use a lot of the Berry 125 gr CP flat point bullets, but the HP should work the same. I have had good luck with a full load (100%) of Trail Boss in a .357 mag case for this bullet. Anything less than a 100% load will not give good accuracy. Universal and WW231 also work well for .38 Special level loads with this bullet.

rat
 
I changed my mind and went with a 125 gr. JSP. I have a lot of time before the fall so I'm sure I can get the expanding bullet thing worked out with DNR. I need to talk with them anyway because I want to use the Cast Performance 180 gr. WFNGC on deer as well.
 
Dem must be some big bunny rabbits. That won't leave anything for the table.
 
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