I have been loading 4.0gr W231 with 158gr LSWC and it is great. However, as difficult as W231 is to find, what is the second best option? I can get on occasion: HS-6, IMR-4227, Clays. Anything else that has been seen around that works well? I have loaded with Autocomp in a pinch but I prefer the W231 type of burn.

HP38 is the same as 231. Bullseye, Red Dot, Hodgen Titegroup, Hodgen Universal, Unique and AA#2 are all good with 38 special. The powders you listed are on the slow side to be ideal for 38 spec.

Titegroup is pretty good. Meters well, burns clean and is relatively NOT case position sensitive - which is great in a cartridge where there is so little volume of powder compared to air space.

IIRC HP-38 is the exact same powder as W231 so you might look for that one too. Hodgedon now owns the Winchester (powder) name and the powder is identical.

While it's an OLD powder and has been around forever, Bullseye works well too.

Ive had good results with bullseye and unique with that bullet.

I use more Universal than anything. For me, the HP38/W231 you're using is the second best.

I couldn't resist, it looked too good not to take a swing at?

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

Many powders are used for 38 Special

HP 38/Win 231 and Bullseye are about all you need.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Do you know HP-38 is the same exact powder as W231? If you find one you find the other.

If I couldn't find W231/HP-38 I would try to find Ramshot Zip. Zip is very similar to W231. The next on my list would be AA#2 and probably Red Dot after that. Bullseye will also work well even though it's a faster powder.

If you like W231&HP-38 you will like Zip just as much and AA#2 isn't far behind. All are ball powders so they meter like water and all are very similar especially in the .38 Special and 45 Auto.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I get way too many, unburned yellow flakes with Universal in both .38 and .44 Special. Clays or HP-38 for me.

I do know the W231 and HP-38 are the same, but neither are available. I had heard that Unique tends to leave flakes behind (burned or unburned). I also have not seen Bullseye or any of the "Dots" (Red, Blue, or any other) in the last year.

The trick with Unique in the 38 and 45 acp is to use it for medium to full power loads rather than mild,target rounds and you'll get a complete burn.In the 44 mag it works for mild to medium.For target loads in the 38 and 45,I always go back to bullseye.

Clays worked well for me in .38 Special using both 148 grain HBWCs and 158 grain RN and SWCs. 3.0 grains under a 158 gr cast RN gave just under 750 FPS from my 6" Pre-14 and proved to be very accurate.

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Unique is the second best powder for 38 Special....


Bullseye is the first.

I like universal for 38. I bought 4 lbs for 45 auto but use it more for 38 and non magnum 357s. I've been shooting 5.7 grains of universal with 158 grain bullet in a 357 case a little more fun than 38 and very accurate.

About the only pistol/shotgun powders I can find are the Dots, Autocomp, 4227, and Clay Dot.
The day after I bought a pound of Unique, it disappeared from the shelves.
I got 2 pounds of Red Dot for .32 Long and .38 target loads.
I save my 4756 for .44 Spl and maybe .45 Colt.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

I like Unique or AA#5 at near max loads the best, very accurate and clean.

That's what I bought Unique for. Hot .44 Spl and .45 Colt loads.
I figure an honest 1000 fps with a hard 240 to 250 grain Keith should be plenty for backup when hunting.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

It might not be 2nd best but how about Trail Boss? It is pleasant to shoot and to load with. Worth trying just for fun.
Ed

I've been using green dot because it's what I could find in this troubled market. 4.2 gr burns pretty clean meters ok and makes good groups. About 800 fps from my 4 in model 19

You asked about IMR-4227. I've not used it in .38's but it makes a fine (if expensive) load in the .357 magnum with lighter 125 grain bullets.

I've read this before, just never suffered it? Maybe differences in our load densities and start pressures(crimping style)?

The unburned and burned flakes is what turned me off Unique about 20 yrs back.

Clays is fine if all you're looking for is lower velocity loads and aren't concerned with low density loads. It's simply too fast burning for my preferences.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

Trail Boss works well and has the great advantage of the max load being to the base of the bullet, eliminating the possibility of an overcharge.

I would suggest putting Vitavouri 3N37 on your list. About the only negative I can report is that it's not nearly as low flash as Accurate #5, in fact it's about equal to Unique in terms of muzzle and B/C flash produced. Another potential negative is cost, however at 27.99 per pound at the Sportsman's Den in Shelby, Ohio it is in line or a bit cheaper with the powders you see at the touring Gun Shows.

Psoitives. Number one is the produced velocity. This powder is a great choice if you want to duplicate a Self Defense loading for pratice purposes. It's also a great choice if you want to insure you meet the Power Factor for competition. Because compared to most powders used in the 38 special it's a very "fast" powder in terms of the bullet velocity produced. It also burns quite clean because the burn rate is so well optimized for the 38 special. Note, it is a bit on the "slow" side for burn rate in a handgun powder so it may not perform well with a 2 inch or shorter barrel. Final plus, and a key one for me, is that it meters as well as Accurate #5, which means it meters perfectly in any powder measure you can name.

Second best? Unique.

The Best? Some will say "Anything except Unique".

Others including myself have had a good go with the Flaming Dirt. Keep the RPMs higher and it burns cleaner. Keep an eye on your powder drop. Some have issues with the way it meters.

I buy Bullseye. When they don't have that, I buy Titegroup. When they don't have that, I get Unique. Offhand, I can't think of a handgun load that wouldn't be fine with Unique. It's like bacon. Bacon goes with anything.

No, No , No a thousand times no!

BLUE DOT is the original Flaming Dirt, (Unique is a close cousin)

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Still Running Against the Wind

I've seen cleaner septic tanks than Blue Dot loads!

I've used a ton of WST (Winchester Super Target) in 38 loads up to Plus-P levels, and in fact just brought another 8 lbs of it home an hour ago, I like it that much. It meters well, better than most flake powders, it's not prone to clumping and bridging like some others, and it's cheap to shoot. It also works well for the 45ACP as long as you don't need peak velocity.

Selection being what it is (none), I did find a couple of cans of Trailboss. I loaded up about 50 rounds and will head out to the range this weekend.

Give Red Dot a try...very close to Bullseye and can, at times , be found sitting on a dealers shelf.

Google: "powder burn rate chart" and get 2 million plus hits. These are four that I have on my desktop for convenience.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...59378465,d.cWc

Powder Burn Rates

Powder Burning Rate Chart color coded by manufacturer

Powder Burning Rate Chart

These charts make your powder search much easier when available inventory is small at the big box store or your LGS.

Accurate Arms #2 is best for 38 spl and 45 acp, AA #5 is second best. AA #9 gives good results in 357 mag and 44 mag.

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S&WHF 366

Best? Any pistol powder that you can find right now with .38 load data for it. Yeah, I'm getting a little desperate.

What's the best hair color for a girlfriend?

Ford, Chevy or Dodge trucks?


Sgt Lumpy

I know it was a "loaded" question. Just looking for some ideas of what folks might have found works when what you want is not available.

I've found Bullseye to be sooty. I use Alliant American Select for 38 spl. which is listed as a shotgun powder and one of the easiest to find because of that. They have load data for it in 38 spl. along with numerous other handgun calibers. I like it so much it's all I use for 12 ga 45 acp and 38 spl. loads. I have 10 lbs of it under my loading bench.

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That's just somebody talkin.

There's a lot of powders that "work". "Best" in terms of a lot of parameters -

- Cost
- Availablilty (most relative to any choice)
- Clean
- Recoil
- Meters well
- Smokes a lot
- Volume in the case

Narrowing down your desires in a powder might get you a better answer. If not someone with totally different needs/wants might tell you what they think is a great powder but might be totally inappropriate for your needs/wants.

And all of it is tempered by what's available, of course.

I like redheads and Chevy's. But my blonde girlfriend's big Dodge 4x4 dually is a pretty nice truck.


Sgt Lumpy

"I prefer the W231 type of burn. "

for "Non-Ball type" powder I use Alliant.
Green Dot is around the burn speed of 231 but does not work well with light target loads in all my 38's.

Bullseye works well but is faster than 231, so that leaves Red Dot.
It fills the case much better than Bullseye and will get +P loads if needed and is great with target loads to maximum in all my 38's and 9mm loadings.
In my J frame snub nose it beats Unique, hands down in overall fps and accuracy test with all Jacketed bullets from 110 to 135grs.
The bad news is that my M49's do not like either Red or 231, for some odd reason with lead target loads from 125gr to the 158's.
Good luck.

True Blue is great if you can find it. Used it for years in my 9mm IPSC loads and works well in 38 special and many other handgun calibers. Also use Vihtavuori N320 and N330.

Agreed. It's what goes thru mine.

x2. 3 gr of clays under a cast 158gr Rn/SWC/RNFP bullet get shot by the thousands by me and my club buddies. This load is relatively clean, soft shooting and darn accurate. Getting 2300 loads out of a single pound is just a bonus.

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Dave

My go to powder for .38's in the 1970's was Unique but switched to W231 in the '80's. Unique would still be my backup.

I would go with Unique. It works well in the old 38's.

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SWCA 1646

I'm getting to where I use Titegroup for all my handgun loads. (.45, .40, .38sp)

I personally use bullseye or Hp38 with that bullet. Win231 is the same though.


Sent by a click click durk

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Kenny T

HP38 then Bullsey

I have used AA#5 recently works pretty good with 158 grain bullets and with 5.6 grains per load you get 1250 loads (or 1206 using 5.8 grains) per pound and either will meet ICORE power floor requirements.

that has to be..................

Alliant BE 86.

Never see it any where !!

I've had very good luck with 700X the last couple years!
Dick

Looking at the long history of the 38 spl and it's popularity in target
shooting I would bet that more rounds of 38 spl have been loaded with
Bullseye than all other powders combined.

I use Unique, 296/H100, and 2400 for all my loading, 38/357,41 mag and 44 mag, if it was good enough for Skeeter...

Go with Bullseye.

I have been shooting 3.0 grains of BE over a 158 LSWC for indoor 50 foot shooting for 30 years. Nice target load, minimal recoil.