Newby using Lee Loader for .38 Sp.

I'm new to this great forum. New to shooting, and very new to reloading. Now, I'll try to be brief, but it ain't my style, so here goes.

My son, with his newly acquired Glock, and me with my Smith .357 Mag 686, have been having an absolute ball at some indoor ranges recently. And being somewhat stunned at the over-the-counter price of .38 Sp 130 gr. practice ammo, I started thinking towards re-loading. I've been carefully saving my own brass.

To break into this, I got the most entry-level equipment available- a Lee Loader for .38 Special, on-line. Now, there seemed initially to be something spooky with hammering on pistol ammo with a plastic hammer, but I quickly got used to it. So, I'll share with you my initial findings, and I have a question or two.

I visited a store near Indianapolis that just sells reloading equipment and supplies, bought 500 semi-flat top plated bullets, 1/2# of powder, 1,000 pistol primers and I was in business. Or so I thought.

The Lee loader card isn't all that good with info. I loaded 15 rounds with a level scoop provided in the Lee kit, and set the bullet height to the same as a round of factory ammo I had... a 130 grain ball Federal I had. I proudly showed my results on a biker forum I belong to, and a good friend, who has been loading for decades, took me APART!



He schooled me on pressures, powder differences, and COL heights. I'd relied on a factoid of the LEE scoop I have (volume of .5cc) yielding 4.7 grains on average. He sent me some spec's on what I should be loading to (From his Lyman 49... yes, it's on my to-buy list) and the importance of the COL dimension. Here's what I then aspired to:

125gr Flat Point
4.1gr IMR PB
926FPS
15,700cup
COL(case overall length) 1.455"

125gr Flat Point
4.4gr IMR PB
985FPS
17,300cup
COL 1.455"

I pulled the bullets off the 15 rounds (learning something about the crimps the LEE loader did) and reclaimed the powder.

I bought a Hornady GS-1500 scale, and went after this again. I weighed each and every one of the 50 round batch. I loaded (6) cartridges with 4.4 gr., (6) with 3.9 gr... .2 grains under minimum, and the rest with 4.1 gr.



I re-set my bullet press to yield 1.455" on the money, and checked every one of 'em.



After work the next day, I hauled these to a range... couldn't wait until I could see/hear/feel the results.

Now, I hope you veteran loaders don't get bored with this... I had a ball doing this, just as I discovered what fun target shooting was.

I've become accustomed to .38 Sp. 130 gr. practice ammo. And it's been also fun to throw some big-dog 158 gr. .357 Mag too. So I was surprised at what I'd loaded. I shot a cylinder of factory Federal to get a gage... then the next cylinder, I fired two rounds of the 4.4 gr. load, the 4.1, and the 3.9.

The 4.4 gr. load was a bit milder than the factory Federal. The 4.1 gr. was much milder. And the 3.9 gr. load was pretty anemic! It just popped a little. I was gratified that the 38 rounds of 4.1 gr. load I fired seemed consistent. Also, all my primers worked, the ammo loaded and ejected perfectly.

All in all, a satisfactory test.

I knocked hell out of the only target I had, so midway through, I thought I'd better pay attention to accuracy. I turned the target over backwards and went at it with a Sharpie. (Know that I'm a beginner here)

You're on a downward spiral now.Welcome to the club :-D

So, I'm in a bit of a holding pattern now. I re-loaded 100 rounds with a slightly hotter load of 4.7 grains. I'm not wanting to knock hell out of anything, I'd just like, for until I exhaust my supply of these 125 gr bullets, I'd like to get to a consistency of the factory target ammo.

I'll mention this, too... my brass is in good shape, having been used only once from new, and in my own revolver. I've checked the overall length on many, and they are very consistent and well under the length that I'll start trimmimg.

I also noticed I need not flare the cases. The bullet has a nice entry radius, and there's just no need.

I'd like to get a powder thrower next, to help out the flow and time spent. I've weighed EVERY ONE of these first re-loads for this reason- the IMR-PB powder granules cling to the LEE scoop cup due to static electricity. I had no way to do a uniform pour. drove me nuts to try to establish a good average, so I measured every one.

There you have it... my maiden voyage into re-loading, using a LEE loader. It works! It's labor intensive, but I have time. I will certainly upgrade in the future, but this thing makes you learn the process.

Ive been messing with this off and on for 30 years and there's always something new to learn.Its a fun hobby.

Until your scoop gets a good coating of graphite type material on it from the powder, the static will drive you nuts. If you can get some powdered graphite (like used for locks), put some in your scoop and swirl it around to coat it - that will help to keep the powder from sticking. Another trick is to use a dryer sheet to wipe your scoop out which should take care of the static hold on the powder.

I use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure - the only thing I've used in it is Bulls Eye but it works great for me. I check every few rounds with an electronic scale and it usually throws either right on or + or - a tenth of a grain. They are fairly inexpensive but I have really enjoyed having it. I got mine from Titan - check Titan out as they have great prices on Lee equipment.

I'm loading 38 spl and 9 mm. When you get to the point that you want to move up to a press, check out the Lee 4 hole classic cast turret press. Easy to use and I can easily turn out a couple of hundred rounds in an evening working at a comfortable pace.

Glad you're enjoying the reloading and shooting! Welcome! Have fun!

A few things you'll want to pay attention to.

First, in a revolver light loads and plated bullets can sometimes add up to a squibbed bullet stuck in the barrel. The Speer 14 manual has the loads for plated/jacketed bullets listed with just one single weight of powder AND a notation that this load NOT BE REDUCED. Personally I don't think that the potential for a squib is nearly as bad as the Speer manual implies but one thing for certain is that you do NOT use a powder charge that is less than the minimum recomended. The problem is that copper has a higher coefficient of friction on steel than lead, so you have to be a bit cautious about not loading too light when using plated or jacketed bullets.

Second, those inexpensive digital scales can be prone to a "wandering zero". First, make sure that your scale reads zero BEFORE you MEASURE EACH CHARGE. If it doesn't read zero you'll have to reset the scale by turning it off and then on again. Second, after filling your case make sure the scale returns to zero when you put the empty pan back on the scale. If it doesn't return to zero, dump that last charge back in your powder reservoir, reset the scale, and do it again. If you don't take these precautions you may find you've loaded up a bunch of ammo with an unknown charge weight when you finally notice the scale has lost it's zero setting.

Concerning powder measures, they are fantastic for loading up a bunch of cases fairly quickly. However, with most powder measures you will find some powders meter very accurately and some powders may vary by as much as 1/2 grain. Unique meters very poorly in my powder measures so I have to hand weigh each charge individually. IMR SR7625, Accurate #5, Hodgdon Longshot, Hodgdon H110, and Vitavouri 3N37 meter wonderfully in my powder measures. So, you can guess which powders I prefer to load with. BTW, my powder measures are all Lee Perfect Powder measures and at 25 dollars they are cheap enough that I'll set up a measure for a specific load recipe and only change it's setting when I open up a new lot of powder. BTW, there is a measurable difference in the weight/volume relationship from lot to lot so any time you open a new bottle of powder you need to check that the measure will throw an accurate charge with that new bottle of powder. The Lee measure isn't as Perfect as it's name implies but it does work well when you select powders that specifically meter well and they are cheap enough you can have an array of measures set up for specific recipes. Note, I put a sticky label on each measure that notes the powder, charge weigh, and the caliber/bullet it's set for.

BTW, one tip on the Lee measure is that you'll want to clamp the reservoir down tight with the clamp screw to make sure it doesn't rotate itself to the "Off" position. Been there done that and I now have my measures set so they can't shut off the powder. IMO you could glue that hopper in place because it's wise to empty any measure back into the powder bottle as soon as you are done using it. Doing this keeps humidity from effecting the powder and it will also keep the powder from "etching" the powder measure.

Final tip. When charging cases I'll set each charge case in a tray and line up the whole batch of charged cases. After I have 50 cases charged I'll then use a penlight and eyeball every case in the tray to make sure the charge level is even. This helps to insure that I didn't forget to charge a case or didn't double charge a case because it's rather easy to spot a mistake of this nature.

Do indeed....

Get a good reloading manual before anything else.

Lee Loaders work pretty good, I used them for years.

.38 special is one of the most forgiving rounds out there, so it's good to start there.

You bought a quality scale which is something vital to knowing what you are doing because the scoops don't give exactly what the chart indicates. I've got the full set of Lee scoops and HAVE to use a scale to see what they actually throw with each powder.

Welcome to the club. Like somebody else mentioned, it's all downhill from here.

bedbugbilly said:

Until your scoop gets a good coating of graphite type material on it from the powder, the static will drive you nuts. If you can get some powdered graphite (like used for locks), put some in your scoop and swirl it around to coat it - that will help to keep the powder from sticking. Another trick is to use a dryer sheet to wipe your scoop out which should take care of the static hold on the powder.

Glad you're enjoying the reloading and shooting! Welcome! Have fun!

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Thank you, billie, for the tip! I'll certainly give this a try.

scooter123 said:

A few things you'll want to pay attention to.

First, in a revolver light loads and plated bullets can sometimes add up to a squibbed bullet stuck in the barrel. The Speer 14 manual has the loads for plated/jacketed bullets listed with just one single weight of powder AND a notation that this load NOT BE REDUCED...

Second, those inexpensive digital scales can be prone to a "wandering zero". First, make sure that your scale reads zero BEFORE you MEASURE EACH CHARGE. If it doesn't read zero you'll have to reset the scale by turning it off and then on again. Second, after filling your case make sure the scale returns to zero when you put the empty pan back on the scale....

Final tip. When charging cases I'll set each charge case in a tray and line up the whole batch of charged cases. After I have 50 cases charged I'll then use a penlight and eyeball every case in the tray to make sure the charge level is even...

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Scooter123, thank you so much for the words and tips. I've cut and pasted your post to a .doc and printed this, with others, in a notebook I'm using to record all my loading.

I had only loaded (6) rounds at .2 gr under min. And they were indeed anemic. Armed with your warning, I won't do this again. As I move forward on the loading experience, my goal is a good target round in .38 Sp. My only revolver at this time is a S&W 686 .357 Mag 4", I feel no need to load low, but I'd like to get to what I'm familiar with, a general purpose Federal (or other) target round.

The scales DO take some attention, and I always get a zero.

As I established a rhythm when loading 100 rounds the other day, to keep my interest from flagging, I filled 10 rounds at a time. I have the perfect tray for holding my charged brass upright and orderly- I use a plastic tray from a .44 package. The square dividers hold the cartridge flange of the .38. And when the 10 are full, I DO look at that point. A good habit to get into- I found an empty in one instance.

Thanks, again.

Way to go, Harley Fan.

Oh yeah, you're hooked!

I never expected there would be anybody who would start out with the old lee loader anymore. I did...about 40 odd years ago, and soon moved into a single stage press.
The information supplied on the card in the kit is well within safety margins, and will produce decent rounds. The $10 dipper kit will work well if you make certain to check your charge against a scale.
There is a range for overall length, not to be exceeded. If you use an ordinary revolver boolitt, you can crimp to the cannelure and be within the COAL. You will note that the the 148 gr. hollowbase wadcutter seats flush to the case mouth, and then is crimped. Pressure differentials become problematic if you seat a standard weight boolitt too deep. That is when you can run the risk of redefining the term 'hand grenade'.
None of this is rocket science, but it is a heads-up operation.
You have a good handle on it and should have a pleasant career in handloading.
You should be pleased with the performance of your hadloaded rounds.
Good shootin'.

Congrats on your new hobby. The .38spl Lee Loader is exactly how I got my feet wet also.

Me, too - right there in Indiana . . . banging away in my dorm room almost 30 years ago.

My roommate freshman year and his brother are to blame for my hunting,gun collecting and shooting hobbies.I was a happy little ski bum before that ;-D

Tell your "buddy" to sit on it. Some folks need to be as "technical" and "anal" as humanly possible and forget reloading just ain't that hard. (You'll see that in discussions about primer pocket cleaning, case trimming, powder weighing vs. volume, etc.). If you stick to the instructions and the load chart that came with your Lee Loader you'll be fine. I reloaded mebbe 1,000 rounds of .38 with a Lee Loader and every one went bang, none blew up my gun, and every one went really close to where I aimed it. I started "pre web", so I had no anonymous "experts" telling me I couldn't/shouldn't do what I was doing and enjoying tremendously. My next purchase was a Lyman manual and a scale (Lee Safety Scale). and I continued to produce good, shootable, safe ammo for mebbe 4 months more and I bought a used press and dies.

Just keep reloading and shooting, but I would recommend a good manual (or three), a good beam scale in addition to your Lee Loader and don't overcomplicate the process. You'll soon "graduate" to bigger, more complicated equipment, but go as fast as is comfortable to you.

BTW, my first Lee Loader was 30+ years ago and now I have a 10X14 shed full of presses, powder measures, scales, dies, mebbe 14 assorted reloading manuals, and about 1 1/2 tons of assorted reloading tools/equipment and still on occasion use one of my 5 Lee Loaders

I reckon we are the contemporary approximation to the 19th century buffalo hunters: good ammo can be handloaded one by one with simple tools. The main difference is we don't have to dig lead out of buffalo carcasses to melt down into bullets over the campfire.
My other 'obsolete' gear includes all manner of Lyman 310 tong tools, dies, and a slew of TruLine Jr. turrets, complete with the #55 powder measures. Other than the heavy resizing, I can use a dedicated setup for all the operations.
The new young bucks seem to need precision answers to low-resolution problems. Some of my gear is pre-war, and I ring the gong at 65 yards with a .45. The ammo works just fine.
I would like to read more on your old-time reloading experiences.
This is a great thread.

Erich said:

Me, too - right there in Indiana . . . banging away in my dorm room almost 30 years ago.

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Yeah, but did you cast bullets on a Coleman stove in the hall bathroom?

I did.

Muley Gil said:

Yeah, but did you cast bullets on a Coleman stove in the hall bathroom?

I did.

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No, you win that one. But I win the Stupid Haircut Award . . .

Spring 1985 (in the dorm)



This past Tuesday, after oral argument in the NM Supreme Court


(Good thing I got the stupid haircut out of my system before all my hair fell out on top, eh? )