I don't know how to get messages out or get replies ,trying this. New to forums, and getting around here to do anything. I would like to ask questions and pick up on info on reloading and our shooting hobby. If this works, I have a Question already, would like to know if small pistol primers can be used in .223 Rem? The source I had needs to be checked out. Thanks, Mike22-4

Small pistol primer is thinner than thinnest small rifle primer. Wouldn't recommend it unless you're just desperate to try working up some really light loads.

Pistol primres, both small and large are good for about 40K or so of pressure. I often use them for cast bullet loads in various rifles. Of course these pressures are less than 40K. I would definately not use them for full power loads of 55K, as bad things are likely to happen.

thanks mmncw, was told cci hard enough, primers are hard to find like everyone has found out, didn't have any small rifle primers and wanted to get info, the slamfire was brought up, and the cci hardness would be considered.

pistol primers were never designed for .223 pressure.
Please dont try this.

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The American dream is alive

No. They make pistol and rifle primers for a reason.

NO

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Still Running Against the Wind

One other problem is that the temperature and the amount of "spark" may not actually ignight the slower burning rifle powders, and would cause a squib load or a hang fire. Neither of which are good for you. Many older 223 loads called for Small Rifle Magnum primers for these reasons. Ivan

I've never tried this so I don't really know what might happen. I expect you might get pierced primers which might cause the firing pin to stick in the primer. Also, pistol primers might not ignite rifle powder fully.

If you are going to try using SPs in .223, make only a few rounds, go to the range and test fire....alone if possible. Look for problems.

Good luck!

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

The CCI small pistol MAGNUM primers is the same as their CCI small rifle primers. But it's still not for 223 in ARs due to risk of slam fires. Safer bet is the CCI #41, see here

That is interesting. Were did you find that information? They have different part numbers

Primer Usage Chart


From this older chart they are no way the same. The small pistol mag is hotter than a regular small rifle.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Not according to the information I have. The CCI small pistol primer is 0.017" thick and the CCI small rifle is 0.020" thick. And the CCI small rifle is best used in 22 Hornet and 30 Carbine like the Remington 6 1/2 primer.

Small Handgun Standard .017" cup thickness

CCI 500

Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.

Pistol primers (small and large) work fine in light rifle loads with fast powders (up to 2400), especially cast bullet loads. I would not use them for high pressure rifle loads.

I have always used only small rifle primers in handgun loads. I did a series of tests about 10 years ago which showed that there was no significant difference in muzzle velocity or grouping using the same loads differing only in primer type. You can't do that with large rifle primers, as the face of the primer stands out above the base and will tie up the cylinder in revolvers and introduces the possibility a slam fire in semi-auto pistols. Some handguns may have ignition problems when using small pistol primers but I have not experienced any.

I have used SRP instead of SPP in my handgun loads because I had so many. but I wouldn't try them the other way around

No. Next question?

will they fit? .... yes, though they will seat a tad deep.
will they work?
If the firearm can deal with having to reach out a little farther to ignite it, yeah .. at least once ... quite possibly, only once.
(Read between the lines as needed)

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it just needs more voltage

Ideas like this cause me to wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat. With all the new people taking up reloading I'm going to bet that this will happen sooner then later.

Midway has CCI Small Rifle Primers and CCI Small Pistol Primers in stock and some coupon codes - depending on how much you spend - good for the next couple days. No CCI Large Pistol Primers in stock though - (or CCI Large Rifle or Magnum primers either).

Coupon codes are linked off the top of each of their pages - $15 off $75 - or $30 off 150 or $45 off $225 - so if you were to order 5000 small rifle at $143.99 you might need to add something small to get it up to $150 before tax - shipping - and hazmat - (unless those are included in the $150, I am not sure) - and the $30 discount covers a portion of the shipping and or hazmat fee.
Depending on how much you reload - of if you have friends or family who do as well - the more you order the better the deal since the hazmat is a fixed fee per order (as near as I can tell).

Now to find someone who has pistol powder in stock as reasonable prices... and an 8lb jug of rifle powder - and I should be set for awhile - to where I don't have to buy at inflated prices - but will continue to watch for deals in order to keep inventory ahead of consumption.

Hi, got the info from an article - John Barsness primer article - Guns magazine May 2009, last note talking about the CCI primer being the same.

I'll send JB a note over at 24hourcampfire and see if he stands behind that or if it was an error.
My answer? No way on God's green earth would I recommend a NEW (inexperienced) reloader use SPP in a small rifle application. The recommendations about use with cast bullets are legit, but I also wouldn't recommend that an inexperienced reloader start with cast bullets - too easy to screw that game up, especially if one does not understand how powder burn rates work or understand just how easy and disastrous a double charge of powder is behind a cast bullet.

We at Calguns.net have been following John Barsness primer article for a long while. Not saying its perfect but its been popular.

Something to think about. When answering a reloading question of a person new to reloading, think about their experience and how they may use the information they get. Many of you all have 10 years, 20 years, 30 years and more experience in reloading and shooting. Your knowledge and experience will keep you out of trouble when doing things not in the book, so to speak. A newbie, however, may not know when he is beyond a limit. Until you get your feet on the ground and some experience behind you, following by the book seems most reasonable in doing things. I still reload only by the book because I am not smart enough to understand all that can/may go wrong.

If I am off base in posting this, I apologize.

As already said, NO, Do Not Do It, Not Recommended, Not Safe, Bad Idea.... I think you get the idea! lol

Small pistol primers are not made to withstand the pressures developed by rifle cartridges. NO, small pistol Magnum primers are not the same as small rifle primers.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I believe he is only talking about "under The Flame" "some" guys who shoot the 22 Hornet "like to use small pistol primers due to there lighter brisance and getting a different ignition in a small cartridge. I do not believe he says they are the same he actually says they are milder than a small rifle.As a general statement rifle primers are harder than pistol.

The issue is online for folks to read.

After the last debate (noting to do with you) I am not going there on debating some Magazine writers article.

It's late or early and I am not going to study the article.

I still recommend going by the manual or calling CCI or any other manufacturer of primers.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I do concur with you to follow a reloading manual as a new loader. Any reloader should always have a reliable reloading manual for reference before relying on us experts over any "Internet or forum" suggested loadings because not all guns behave exactly the same and it's your own safety.

I just have to say that some of the questions regarding reloading on the Internet are downright scary. I understand that the OP was just checking out a wild claim by someone else (thank goodness).

They always seem to start out like this:
"I know that most manuals say not to do this, but can I..."

I met a guy at the range who reloaded .223. His measuring technique was to "dip" the case into a cereal bowl full of powder and "fill it to the rim", before jamming a bullet on top.

I got all my stuff and moved to the other end of the range.

JB (Barsness) replied to my PM at 24hourcampfire - he is member handle "Mule Deer" over there. First, my post to him, followed by his response.

"JB, there is a bit of a debate going on at the smith-wesson forum about small pistol primers and their usage in small rifle applications and your name was brought up as a source stating that CCI small pistol magnum primers are the same as CCI small rifle primers. small pistol primers in 223 Do you have a definitive answer to the small pistol magnum=small rifle primers in the CCI lineup?
Peace,
Willie "

"Apparently he misread something in the article, because what he claims isn't there--and isn't true."

and that friends is "The rest of the story"

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Still Running Against the Wind

Good reloaders follow directions to the letter. Good practice to follow.