All trimmed to 2.485" with a light bevel in and out........
Using IMR 4895 in the 1903 bolt action. (no Garand)
Never shot a FMJ out of this rifle before......... !!

I started with 46 grs that several manuals called out for 2600 - 2700 fps........ but I got 2465 fps without a crimp on the case.
Near maximum load w/o a crimp hit 2703 and all these loads were at 2.17" or over at 100 yards
I did have one load that I crimped with 27 grs of 4895 and it hit 1.5" high but did put the four test loads into a .68 grouping.
Only bad thing is I did not chrony this load.

The question now is, should I retest the 46gr and 48gr with a crimp ..........and waist bullets and powder ..........or should I be happy with the .68" load ?

Can the FMJ w/c bullet do better at lower speeds..... higher speeds, for target use? I am guessing that the 27gr load is doing around 2580 +/- .

I have had this powder up to 52grs in commercial RP brass but
49.5 grs was best accuracy in the high end target range with hunting bullets.

Ball M2 ammo hits 2700 fps in GI cases......... do I need to go this high or is there a "Target speed" that works well with this bullet.......... in general per all those major target matches.

Thanks for any info.

Keep the load data for the load that works. Experiment with other loads, methods, etc., just for the fun/experience. There is no wasted components in reloading as it's all fun (unless you spill powder, scrunch brass, or drop primers and can't find 'em). I have found the "sweet spot" for most of my guns and record that load, but I continue to try different loads, crimp/non-crimp, OAL, etc., because I like to reload; it's my hobby, nothing "wasted..."

I agree with mikld, its not a waste!

Its not just the results, its the "Journey" too

reshoot the 27 grain and get your chrony data, retest the 46 & 48 with a crimp - you just gotta know

and also be happy with the .68" load - but can you shoot it again?

who says you can't have your cake and eat it too!

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I'd like to agree with you BUT

In .30-06 and .308 I often got the best accuracy with "three quarter
throttle" loads. Velocity usually fell between 2550 and 2600 fps.
That's slow for either caliber but, since I was target shooting, mostly,
I didn't care.

Bullets were often Winchester contract overruns, or pulls. They were
FMJ boattails that weighed 147 grains.
I used a lot of Lake City '68 cases for those loads.

My .30-06 BAR tightened up groups with loads that were a bit stouter than
the target loads. Bullets in those loads were Remington Core-Lokt
150 grain pointed soft points with a flat base. Cases were Remington
once fired '06.

Could you weigh 5 military brass and 5 commercial brass and tell me the difference? I shoot lead in my 1917 Enfield.

Davide

"...but did put the four test loads into a .68 grouping..."

27 grains of IMR 4895 in a .30-'06 case is very mild. You didn't say at what distance you fired a .68" group, but if at 100 yards, that is extremely good to almost unbelievable performance, especially so if using GI 150 grain jacketed bullets, which are not noted for good grouping performance. The typical M2 load can generally be duplicated by using about 48 grains of IMR 4895 and a 150 grain spitzer bullet. Whether or not the bullet has a crimping cannelure should make no difference. Bullet seating depth can make a huge difference in grouping capability, depending upon the rifle. In fact, it is probably the single most important consideration aside from bullet consistency.

.68" @ 100 would be about 4" maybe 4.5" at 600 yards. I think that's outstanding on a 03 rifle (I assume without scope) Like someone said , "Can you do it again," if you do you're onto something! Ivan

I hit a 50 gal. drum at 980 yards with a peep sight and a 200 gr BT with 54grs of IMR 4350 with this rifle when I did not wear bi-focal.

The rifle is a shooter.. just depends on who is driving,

( that 27 gr load should read 47grs ... sorry )

Maybe try a different powder like Varget or 4064 if you can't get repeatable results that you are happy with.

I stopped crimping 30-06 rounds. I use an 'M' die to expand. Neck tension is good enough though I would consider something like a 'taper' crimp.

PS I LOVE light loads in the 30-06. It makes it a 'fun gun'.

UPDATE: I'm screwed up. I use an expander ball with 30-06, 'm' die with 9mm. I still got away from crimping bottleneck bullets though.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Bought a RCBS Jr. in 1973. Still use it as my only press. Keep loading, keep records, shoot more. In time you will know in your head the loads your favorite pieces. I still open my loading data to the dies that are in the press. Start low!

old 1911 fan

IMO we get way too concerned with numbers when what really matters is accuracy. Yesterday I was testing some 357 Magnum loads for my 1892 Winchester and a 140 grain xtp with 12.7 grains of AA #9 was running an average of 1615 fps but had a 70 fps swing in velocity over 3 rounds but a previously accuracy tested 12.5 grain load was running 1600 fps with a variation of only 25 fps. I was a bit surprised that 2/10's made that big a difference but it's very apparent that in my guns a 12.5 grain load of AA #9 with a 140 grain XTP is the "sweet" spot because that same load was very stable at 1285 fps out of my 6" Dan Wesson. The lesson here is that if a load is accurate and you don't see any hint of excess pressure there really isn't any need to drag out the chronograph.

I never use a chrony, instead relying on bullet performance to indicate a good or bad load. If I got a .68" group, I'd holler "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!" and leave it alone.

RWSmith;

Yes, I like light loads in all my rifles.I started with the Speer #1805 100gr "Plinker" with BLC, Bullseye and Unique but finally ended up with the Hornady #3005 with a medium heavy load of SR 4759 that does well way out to 100 yards but averages 4 @ .65 at 50 yards for the kids.

At only 1600 fps there is minimum recoil.

I will check for more bullets, if they are there I will test more....... just down to 80 bullets, since I only bought 100 to try out.

later.

Shot a lot of white tails with different 06 loads and never had one that didn't come out of the deer . Accuracy is all that matters,all had plenty of oomph.

__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere

How many people crimp lead, gas checked or jacketed bullets in the 30-06?


Me - lead or jacketed, now I don't crimp any.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

If you look around on the precision shooting sites that cater to folks who reload bottle neck cartridges, like 30-06, you will probably discover that most shooters rely on neck tension, not crimping, to hold the bullet in place.

Yeah, rifles are a little different than handguns. There is a little more surface in contact with the usual rifle bullet than most pistol rounds. The cases are generally not belled before inserting a bullet. Yes, the inner edge of the neck is beveled to prevent "shaving" of the bullet. But, the case itself is not belled and stays tight around the bullet. That tightness is referred to as "neck tension".

In a rifle cartridge, sufficient neck tension (instead of crimping) is important to prevent the bullet from moving in a semi-automatic, like my Garand that feeds rather violently. So, most rifle reloading enthusiasts full length resize their cases to restore neck tension and to make certain the round will chamber without a hangup.

Yes, you can also just "neck size" with the appropriate die, if you are shooting a bolt action rifle where an occasional over-sized cartridge body will not cause a dangerous stoppage. But then the cartridge will only be certain to work in one single rifle, so most of us full length resize in any event.

With a full length die, the neck tension is a function of the size of the expander ball and more or less fixed by the die manufacturer. No worries, eh?!

With the some of the more sophisticated neck sizing dies, you can change an internal collet, but once again you are usually limited by what the manufacturer offers. Out of the box, the standard neck sizing die will be just fine for most of us and will provide sufficient neck tension.

The general opinion of the precision shooters is that crimping would "destroy their accuracy". I'm not sure if that is true, but if you ever try to pull a bullet from a freshly reloaded round made with a properly resized case you will discover that it takes a lot of force and that crimping is not necessary.

Hope this long winded explanation helps . . .

I have always gotten good accuracy from a 150gr bullet and 4895 in 30-06 ammo built for bolt action military rifles and the M1 Garand.

These are the loads i find to be very accurate:
46.0gr H4895 under a 150gr M2 bullet.
46.4gr H4895 under a 150gr M2 bullet.

47.0gr IMR4895 under a 150gr M2 bullet.
47.5gr IMR4895 under a 150gr M2 bullet.

I use either a CCI-200 primer or Winchester WLR primer with all the loads and if I'm loading M1 ammo I use a CCI #34 NATO primer instead.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I do not crimp rifle bullets, lead or jacketed. IF I need to turn back the flare I will set a little crimp. 99% of the time, NO.

I turned my case necks on some 22-250. The die was not sizing the case enough so I had to crimp the bullets. I since bought a new sizing die.

David

Of all the rifles that I load for.........

the 150gr 30-06 is the ONLY bullet that I crimp.
Even the Rem. Core-Lokt 150gr CXP3 bullet had to finally be
crimped to get the best groups in my rifle with commercial brass.
I think it has something to do with bullet jump and how the powder burns with the short OAL?

I have no problem with longer 165gr bullets with a 3.34" OAL.

I shot a Factory 55gr Federal Bonded Bear Claw out of my 22-250 and it did not group as well as my non-crimp loads in that bullet weight.... but the BC was not that great either. (.205)
The standard low price SP Hornady has at least a BC of .235 !!

Sorry, I don't shoot lead in my rifles.

Good suggestion. Try a different primer as well with the same load you are using. I've seen interesting changes in accuracy with just a primer of a different brand. This is all part of the alchemy of handloading!

Big 10-4 on different primers if you are not happy.

My 180 and 200gr boat tails were getting terrible groups with
cci 200 and 250, and federal primers until ................

I tried the Winchester LR primers. With IMR4350 powder my
groups went to under an inch at 100 yards with commercial
cases for my hunting loads.

Only two outings with the military case and FMJ, with 6 loadings. Getting the fps down right now.........
Later.

Very interesting, sir! I will be watching for further developments.

With my Garand, which likes to tap the primers lightly while chambering a round, hard CCI No. 34 primers are pretty much de rigueur.

Although the groups from mine are smaller than the rifle is supposed to be capable of shooting (loading 46.5 grains of IMR 4895 with 168gr SMK bullets), it might be fun to try other primers.

Here is a picture of the target load that won out......
I thought I posted it..........sorry.
A little adjustment to the sights and it should work.

I will try the faster 2710 fps load with a Rem. 150 Core-Lokt
to see if it will shoot worth a darn with a crimp at 3.19" with
commercial brass......for the final, final test..........
for a load that will not waste too much meat, out to 300 yds max.

With all this new powder and bullets, I am going crazy ..........
The 22-250 is next.

Later.