Sooty brass

CTI1USNRET

CTI1USNRET

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I like the max load shown for 44 Special on Hodgdon's site using HS-6. But even the max load leaves the cases sooty in my Model 24-6. It's not just HS-6; all published loads have left my cases sooty.

Is this something I just have to accept when shooting a cartridge whose max is ~15,000 CUP?
 
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That happens with multiple calibers and powders for me. Sometimes you get good case expansion through the whole powder burn cycle, sometimes you don't. Slow powders are especially prone to sooty cases because they are not fully consumed as the pressure drops and the gases can leak around the cases as they shrink back.
 
Are the cases "sooty" on the outside of the case or inside the case ?
If sooty on the outside , post #2 answers that. Try a faster powder or anneal the cases to soften them. I do this with 41 magnum brass that I load for light cast bullet loads. The annealed brass seals with less pressure.
And a good crimp helps also.

If the soot is inside the case...that's normal, slow burning powders do that.

Gary
 
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CTI1USNRET said:
Copper plated RNFP with a 1/2 turn tapered crimp.
Click to expand...

The gases are leaking past the bullet case seal or lack off. Most of the time the soot is more on one side of the case than the other,

Plated bullets and mag loads are not the best combination as mentioned you can not put a good roll crimp on them.

HS 6 is a very "clean" burning powder, compared to others.
 
I used HS-6 in my 686 6" 357 Magnum with a 158 lead SWC lubed bullet a few weeks back.
With a target loading together with the lube on the bullet, there was a LOT of white smoke
coming out of the revolver.

HS-6 did a lot better with the Hornady XTP jacketed bullets......
 
Soot is present with all low pressure loads as far I can tell. Sure you can do things like roll crimp to boost pressure as mentioned above, but it's still going to happen as your max allowable operating pressure is insufficient to blow out the brass in the chamber for full obturation.

Soot doesn't really bother me too much, but this is another reason I love Hodgdon Clays. Wow is this stuff clean! I use it primarily because it makes smoking accurate low velocity loads. Nonetheless, I can't help but notice how clean it is. Yesterday I put 200 rounds of Xtreme 158's over 3.7gr of Clays through a 4" 686. All the fouling came off in three patches; one for the external wipe down, one for the bore, one for the chambers. No solvent was used.

Brass was clean too.

Clays has been hens teeth for some time, but Cabelas has 8 pounders in stock right now.

Hodgdon reloading lists 4.5gr of Clays as a max charge for a 200gr slug in 44 Special...so that's 12,444 rounds per 8 pounder. Pretty economical.

I chuckle when I see other powders claiming to be "clean". Universal and CSB1 are close to Clays in cleanliness, but no cigar. No other powders I've used even come close. If you like accuracy in low velocity and hate soot, try Clays.
 
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I shoot 8.5 grains of 800x 45 Colt loads with 255 cast bullets I make myself.
This is a sure recipe for sootiness. However I no longer have that problem.
The reason I don't is because when I size the brass, I only size about 1/4 of an inch which leaves the rest of the case the same size it was when it came out expanded after the last firing.

Then, I very minimally expand the the mouth. And I do not crimp these loads, either. THere is no bullet pull, zero leading, and the accuracy is outstanding.
 
All the loads I've tried are accurate. I was just hoping to reduce the soot. But I can live with it.

Thanks for your replies.
 
All I shoot is lead that I've cast and I get it on most of my pistol calibers. I just accept it as a fact of life and I don't find it with just one powder but all that i use - BE, RD, Unique. I reload my brass a couple of times and when they get too dirty, I de-prime and throw in a bucket of hot water with some citric acid in it. I stir it several times and leave it in for a 1/2 hours or so and then rinse with hot clear water and lay out on an old bath towel to dry. It cleans them up - doesn't "shine" them like a tumbler but they do look very presentable.
 
Being that the Model 24-6 is just a 44 Mag with the chambers supposedly reamed shorter to only accept 44 Spls, I decided to load into +P pressures.

Increasing the powder charge of HS-6 from 8.0 gr (13,000 CUP) to 9.25 grains got rid of 99% of the soot. The starting 44 Mag load using HS-6 is 12.0 grains (22,000 CUP), all according to the reloading data on Hodgdon's site.

I also increased the OAL from 1.450" to 1.540", which was probably unnecessary.

Now before some of you hair-triggered safety-czars get your knickers in a twist, I called S&W when I found I could chamber 44 Mags in my N-frame 44 Spl. I started to tell the tech guy that 44 Mags just dropped in like it was chambered for it. Before I could go any further he cut me off and said, "The legal department will not allow me to say that it is ok to fire 44 Mags in your revolver because the barrel is stamped "44 S&W Spl Ctg."

But he did freely answer questions about the construction of the Model 24-6.

Is the frame the same size and strength as the N-frame 44 Mag? Yes.
Is the cylinder the same? Yes.
Is the tapered barrel the same? Yes.

Have you encountered this before? Yes.

Has there been a recall or do you think there will be one? No

That last answer is most telling in this lawyer-driven-recall-minded industry.

I told him I bought a 44 Spl because I had no need for a 44 Mag. He said, "I shoot 38 Specials in my 357 Magnum all the time."

So, I have a blue, square butt, 2⅞" S&W 44 Mag Mountain Gun with "44 S&W Spl Ctg" stamped on the barrel.

This revolver is my CCW.

Added later: I loaded 8.5 gr, 9.0 gr, 9.5 gr, and 10.0 grains. The soot just about disappeared at 9.5 grains. So I backed it down to 9.25 grains and still got clean brass. I'm happy. (I wear white shirts a lot.)
 
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So if S&W does not want you to fire 44 magnum in your 44 special................

why did they install a long cylinder ?

The old model 60 was a 38 special......
today it has a long cylinder for 357 ammo.

Have fun.
 
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