148g WC vs 158g SWC and SWCHP

Hi all, just got a 642 and am soon getting a Lee Classic Turret to start reloading. I've been doing some reading but am having a tough time differentiating from the 148/158g bullets. I'm hoping to find a load that I can use for both practice and occasional pocket carry. Also hoping for something light enough that the wife can practice, too.

So I'm interested in your thoughts between the bullets listed in the subject line. Also interested in your favorite suppliers - the hp's seem especially hard to find. any tips for a new reloaded that might be specific to these loads? I think the Lee factory crimp die will be able to handle these light roll over crimps ok?

Thanks!

You shouldn't have any problems getting the crimps you want with that press if you set your dies right. I won't speak to loading for the snubbie I've never done that. Fella here by the name of Nevada Ed has a bunch of old posts you could look through, or perhaps he'll show up...

I'd recommend the HP if you're thinking of defense as one purpose. Not that the WC wouldn't be a decent choice, but the HP would be better. I like the Hornady, but the Speer is on sale at Midway right now. Just stick with the standard loads in the manuals and you can't go wrong. I recommend getting a second seater die and seat and crimp in two steps, this keeps you from shaving lead or deforming the bullet nose. Recoil will be snappy in your snubby.

Penn, Missouri and Bayou bullets

Any of these places have great bullets and service.

HBWCs are designed and work very well as low velocity target bullets because the skirt expands to fit the barrel. Some people use them for SD because they cut a big hole. SOME people even turn them around for SD use to make something like a Speer Gold Dot with a wide hollow point.


SWCs are good general purpose bullets that having a somewhat round nose with a meplat is better aerodynamically than a WC, but still cuts a nice hole in the target due to the rim. They feed much better in most semi autos, too.

Soft swaged and Hard Cast SWCs are used a lot for hunting due to their deep penetration.

A HPSWC only increases its effectiveness over a SWC due to the hollow point which facilitates expansion in hunting or SD situations.

The 148 gr. wadcutter is the best choice for practice and a light load with little recoil. The hard cast DEWC is readily available. The classic load is 2.7-3.0 grs. Bullseye powder. No crimp at all is needed.

Of the three bullets you mention, the 158 SWCHP is the only choice for SD, IMHO. But the 125 gr . JHPs are far superior to that. A firm crimp is needed to help with bullet jump. Remember that the most important factor is good case neck tension, or friction fit. You absolutely do not need a Lee Factory Crimp Die for anything. Get your regular dies adjusted properly and you'll be fine.

Here is a good source for cast bullets:

Missouri Bullet Company

Probably the best choices for handloading JHPs are the Speer Gold Dots and the Hornady XTP. The Speers are very hard to find. The XTPs are available from Brownell's right now on sale. Either of these is excellent for SD.

XTP PISTOL BULLETS | Brownells

Recoil diff between the 148 & 158 is negligable. The 158gr lswc can do it all, target or plinking. In lswchp design, still a viable bullet in a fight. The swc also loads more easily into the cyl.

Hi. I am glad you asked for some advice.

Wadcutters are great for target practice and for punching holes. If you are using them for self defense, you could be looking at difficulty on a rapid reload. When I shot PPC matches, when I used wadcutters, I had to use the Safariland comp speedloaders, and then still had some problems!

HKS speedloaders hold cartridges loosely, so the cartridges don't fully align with the cylinder charge holes easily, and requires some jiggling, slowing down the reload. The Safariland comp speedloaders hold the cartridges snuggly, but alignment can still be an issue.

In the event of the need for a rapid reload, semi wadcutters and round nose bullets (including hollow points) are a better choice. I have never had an alignment issue using SWC, RN, or HP bullets with a speedloader. Even if you use speed strips, RN, SWC, and HP rounds load easily, but not as quickly as when you use a speedloader.

A word of advice is to not use handloads for your carry ammo. I would suggest that you get a box of Hornady Critical Defense ammo, or comparable, for carry, and use swaged RN or SWC bullets for practice and range time.

148 WC for are/ were used for extreme accuraccy, to wit bullseye and PPC competition.

During the revolver era there were huge quantities of cheap, comercial reloads of WC sold, because they were cheap, and had less recoil than the other standard load of the era, the 158 LRN .Accuracy of these cheap loads varied from kinda average to terrible.

I never reloaded WC's because I got such good results from 158 swc . 3.4-3.5gr of W231 duplicate factory std vel loads. My favorite of 3.2gr gives about 50fps less (think 700fps from 4in bbl), and sub 1.0in @ 25yd in guns inherently capable of such accuracy.

amheck,
I've have been reloading for over forty years, but I'm constantly learning how much I don't know about reloading.
You have to get some reloading manuals and read them before you start. My favorites are The Lyman Pistol and revolver manual and Hodgdon's annual reloading manual (magazine size). A subscription to Handloader magazine would also be a good idea.
I crimp all my reloads in a Lee factory crimp die in a separate press after the bullet is seated and that works very well for me.
Tired of scrubbing lead form my barrels, I now usually load either coated bullets from Bayou, SNS Casting, X-treme, or Missouri Bullets (sometimes, X-treme has free shipping). Or plated bullets from Berry's (and Berry's has some nice ammo boxes with hinged covers). I believe that they all have 148 and 158 grain bullets. The 148 grain wad cutters have been around forever, make nice clean cut holes in the target and are usually loaded on the light side and very pleasant to shoot in a J frame S&W. I like a little more oomph behind my wadcutters and load them with 3.0 to 3.3 grains of Bullseye, but I didn't start out doing that. That's the magic of reloading your own bullets. You can make the load the way you like it. Berry's has a nice hollow base plated wad cutter, but it doesn't have a crimp groove, so I set the overall length to be the same as the coated bullets crimped in the crimp groove.
The 158 grain semi wad cutters are probably better for longer range or hunting type shots, but I doubt you'll be doing much of that with a 642.
If I wanted a 38 special self defense load, I'd probably load a semi jacketed hollow or soft point bullet or Hornady XTP using +P load data. If you search this forum, you might find some threads on using wad cutters for self defense. The bottom line is usually that if you want absolute stopping performance, you need more power and/or mass.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't want to be shot with any of my 38 special loads.
I'm sorry for the long post, but it's late and after my nightly glass of wine, I start rambling.
Keep asking questions; that's always good. And good luck with your new press.
George

PS: The best source I've found for jacketed bullets is:
Online Shooting Supplies, LLC - Shooting Supplies at Affordable Prices

Thanks for the thoughts all. I've had a couple glasses of wine tonite, too.

In all honestly, I've had a carry permit for 6-7 years and have never carried. I've really never felt the need to, I suppose, and agree, I don't want to get shot with any bullet. Which is why I'm trying not to stress out about this decision. But I suppose that's the beauty of reloading...I can try out a few and see what I like.

I came across the WC and SWC Looking for a lighter load for the 642. And then saw some comments about how some felt these were just fine for defense, which is why I perhaps thought 1 bullet could be used for both. Realistically, I think the majority of us will do out shooting at the range and will never have to shoot to protect. So I guess lessor recoil at the range would be first, and then having something, even half decent, if I decide to put this in my pocket, should I ever need it.

I have Lee's Modern Reloading and have the ABC OF Reloading on the way.

There's tons of info on line. Lots of info on You Tube too. Until you get a bit of experience you might want to stick to factory ammo for carry. A squib on the street is a very bad thing.

Keep in mind if you are handloading, you can produce vel & recoil levels as you like. Why i said no real diff in recoil between 148 & 158 @ say 700fos.

First of all, the lee classic turret press is a good choice and the standard Lee 4 die set will easily load any of the bullet types you've listed. Others have mentioned the need for a good crimp and I agree. I'd suggest trying your first loads by leaving round in the gun and firing two cylinders full at first, to make sure the bullets don't jump the crimp.

Cast 148gr DEWC or HBWC's do make great light recoiling practice bullets and if they're hardcast, can be driven just as fast or faster than 158gr SWC styles. Having used all of them, the DEWC and HBWC's are just a pain to reload quickly, so I prefer to just use 158gr. LSWC as my standard load; loaded light for practice and stiff for defensive use. The HP versions are also fine but, IMHO not needed at typical 38Spl velocity.

The lighter 148gr bullet is #1 for target work with top accuracy and minimum recoil in most weapons.
Some have turned the hollow base around and tried to use it as a SD load but more on that later.
Many have better luck with the BBwc that has no hollow cavity.

The 158gr Lswc design makes a very nice, easy to see round hole in paper targets and also makes scoring easy if you do that sort of thing.

The Lead "FBI" hollow point design is a good SD load if...........it has enough speed to start expansion.
It does well in 4" barrels or longer but in a snub nose 38, expansion does not always happen if the tip plugs with material or has too low of a velosity............
which makes it like a Lswc bullet along with the 148gr LHBwc bullet if it does not expand and start to mushroom.
My soft lead bullets need 818 fps minimum to mushroom "Most" of the time out of my snub nose.

There are also plated 148gr bullets out there for your use. I do not know if they come "Coated" but they are options to also look into for your X-Lite target work.

As a note on recoil, my M49 21 oz. 38 spl with a 148 at 628 fps has R 2.62 (ft/lbs) while the 158 LRN Federal factory near 648 fps has R 3.42. The 158 FBI at R 5.92 ft/lbs.

Good shooting.