Small Pistol primer hardness scale ?

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retired2006

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I have used Federal primers for my 38/357 reloads for my S&W revolvers, which are all range guns, and which all have lightened trigger actions, but right now the Federals seem impossible to find, so my question is----
Of the available primers, CCI, Winchester, Remington, how would you rate them for hardness, based on your experience ?
 
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softest to Hardest:

Federal
Winchester
Remington
CCI

Yes it is very hard to get Federal (because of this I assume), But at least I got some Winchester's the other day 5 bricks that will load for my m27 and Ruger 357. Otherwise, my 9mm's, or 40's don't seem to mind the CCI's.
 
Funny, I like CCI primers. In fact, when I have a choice, I buy CCI small rifle primers for loading my pistol rounds. That way I can reduce the number of different primers I have to keep in stock. Recently the LGS has been going back and forth between having the CCI primers on sale vs the Federal primers on sale (just under $25 after tax out the door). I needed primers so I bought a couple boxes of Federal SPP's.

I don't have a Dillon and my Lee auto prime broke so I had to get their new primer. These two systems are known to kaboom with Federal primers so since I didn't own them, I figured I was safe. The Federal primers are noticeably softer than the CCI primers and tend to squeeze into crimped primer pockets that haven't been reamed/swaged completely. The CCI's would not have made it into those pockets without another treatment. That might not be a good thing, but so far I have yet to set off one of these primers on the press.

It's good to know that I don't have to avoid Federal primers anymore. I've always loved their 209A shotshell primers, but their pistol primers are OK by me. I will still avoid their SRP's because I shoot an AR with a floating firing pin.
 
I think retired_diver is right.

Federals seat into primer pockets the easiest by FAR, then Winchesters, and then CCI. I haven't tried Remington. I take seating as an indication of how hard the metal cup of the primer is, and then that will determine how hard of a strike to get it to ignite.

The only round of all my reloads that didn't go bang was a CCI primer in 38sp in a Ruger Security Six shooting DA with stock springs.

I'd rather have anything than CCI primers when it comes to seating though. I prefer Federals, like you, when I can get them, but I've gotten used to Winchester since they're so readily available. Plenty of success and no failures shooting DA - even with reduced power hammer spring in my GP100.
 
Interesting. The very first gun I tried CCI SRP's was in my Ruger Service Six and they all went bang. They were primed empty cases and after firing, the primers backed out slightly which caused concern. I talked to the range officer about this and this was where I learned that primer only shots backed out the primer and only when the powder shoots out the bullet that the pressure drives the case backwards and pushes the primer back into the pocket.

Anyway, I've never had a problem igniting CCI SRP's in a pistol cartridge, but I've never messed with striker/hammer springs. I've only used stock setups in my handguns and they were able to shoot CCI SPP's and SRP's perfectly. YMMV.
 
This is from a very knowledgeable guy on another forum, It is not actual proof but I have no reason to doubt him as he knows "stuff":) I would put Wolf towards the hard or hardest.

Small Pistol Primers in order of sensitivity, from easiest to ignite to hardest:

Federal
MagTech
Winchester
Remington
CCI

"I haven't tested Wolf,
If you want to do a test for yourself, take a good Smith & Wesson revolver and loosen the strain screw until it won't set off a primed case. (use empty, primed cases for this test) Gradually tighten the strain screw until it will reliably set off Federal primers. Then start trying to ignite the others, starting with MagTech, and then down the list. Tighten the screw for each one until it will reliably set off that brand."

My guess is your test will have the same results as mine did and your list will the same.
 
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There are a lot of variable involved with primers but my experience has been that with the Standard Pressure primers I've used CCI's are almost equal to Federal and Remington primers being "hard".

Note, this is based on my 620, 610, and 625. all equipped with C&S extended travel firing pins and DA triggers tuned to 8 lbs. 0 ounces per my Lyman Digital trigger gage. No problems with misfires at all with ammunition loaded with either of these brands. Then I decided to shoot some Remington UMC I had stashed in order to have some fresh cases to use for reloading. Big problems with misfires, it was so bad with the 610 that I ended up shooting it in single action that day. BTW, the next weekend I took some CCI primed reloads along with a box of more the Remington and the difference was night and day, every single CCI primed round fired in double action and the Remington was misfiring about 2 rounds per cylinder. Since that experience I have re-tuned the triggers on all my revolvers to 9.0 lbs and haven't had any issues with misfires.

Now, with Magnum primers the story is different. Found that out with a Dan Wesson 15-2 picked up a while back. The previous owner had installed a lightened mainspring and in double action that revolver had a misfire rate of 30% with CCI 500 Standard primers and 5/6 misfires with CCI 550 Magnum primers. All I can think is the previous owner only shot this revolver in Single Action, where it did fire everything. Ordered a new mainspring from Numrich's and that solved the misfire issue. It also took the DA trigger weight to a range that reads OVERLOAD on my Lyman gage but by feel is likely in the 13-14 lbs range. I joke around at that trigger being a training trigger for a Mosin Nagent, because it's a "good Russian trigger" and make you into a real man. All the while imitating a Russian accent poorly and thumping my chest.
 
Thanks for the replies, no big surprises, except the Mactech, maybe I will try a few of them.
FYI, I only really need the Federals for my revolvers, my 9mm's and 40's run just fine on about anything.
 
Will this discussion never end? ALL U. S. primers are made to the same sensitivity standards in any given size/type. And there is some tolerance range in those standards. Military primers are a made little less sensitive for a purpose - to avoid slam fires in full automatic weapons.

There is probably as much sensitivity variance from lot to lot from any given manufacturer than there is between brands. I do not know what standards the foreign makers use.

Manufacturers use a very precise drop test method to measure primer impact sensitivity that cannot be duplicated by simplistic methods such as changing the hammer spring tension.
 
DWalt said:
Will this discussion never end? ALL U. S. primers are made to the same sensitivity standards in any given size/type. And there is some tolerance range in those standards. Military primers are a made little less sensitive for a purpose - to avoid slam fires in full automatic weapons.

There is probably as much sensitivity variance from lot to lot from any given manufacturer than there is between brands. I do not know what standards the foreign makers use.

Manufacturers use a very precise drop test method to measure primer impact sensitivity that cannot be duplicated by simplistic methods such as changing the hammer spring tension.
Click to expand...

So every custom gunsmith that builds, and everyone who competes with, slicked up guns who recommends and/or uses Federal primers due to increased sensitivity over other brands based on their experience of successfully recommending/using them don't know what they are talking about?

BTW I have a Smith 929, several 627s and a 610 that will not set off properly seated Winchester or CCI primers reliably unless the DA trigger pull is at least 11lb. With properly seated Federal primers the DA pull can be set as low as 7lbs. If you are right I must be imagining things.
 
I am surprised to see Magtech listed as being relatively soft. Magtech is the only small pistol primer that has not reliably fired in several 38 and 357 revolvers that I have tried. I don't use Magtech any more.
 
DWalt said:
Will this discussion never end? ALL U. S. primers are made to the same sensitivity standards in any given size/type. And there is some tolerance range in those standards. Military primers are a made little less sensitive for a purpose - to avoid slam fires in full automatic weapons.

There is probably as much sensitivity variance from lot to lot from any given manufacturer than there is between brands. I do not know what standards the foreign makers use.

Manufacturers use a very precise drop test method to measure primer impact sensitivity that cannot be duplicated by simplistic methods such as changing the hammer spring tension.
Click to expand...

Why are Federals packed in extra large boxes with more space between them? To make it look like you get more??

So Federals go bang as easy as CCI??
 
Stop and think - What POSSIBLE reason would any manufacturer have in making a primer that would not work 100% of the time in any firearm, without worrying about it being too sensitive (possibly causing slamfires in semiautomatics, or detonation during primer seating) or not sensitive enough (and causing misfires)? Remember, Winchester, Remington, and Federal all use those very same primers they sell to reloaders for use in loading their own ammunition brands. At one time, Federal used to package their primers just like everyone else. Whatever the reason for their current packaging, it has nothing to do with Federal primers having increased impact sensitivity vs. everyone else's. Don't you think for an instant that if some primer manufacturer thought there was a marketing advantage to making higher (or lower) impact sensitivity primers (PLEASE do not call it "hardness") they wouldn't advertise the fact -- but have you ever seen a primer carton that says "Buy Federal Primers, the most sensitive on the market?" I haven't.

If anyone is interested, I can provide the industry standards for primer impact sensitivity for each type of primer, but it requires a fair amount of detail regarding the test method and understanding of statistics to do so.
 
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CCI #550's and 350's are the hardest, Feds are the softest as far as i can tell. It seems to me like CCI primer cups are either thicker, or harder. Nothing shy of a properly tuned full power main spring will ignite a magnum cci primer in my guns. Ive found if a gun can reliably fire cci's, it can reliably fire any other brand. I cant say the same for federal, which is why I say their primer cups are easier to punch than cci.
 
Rule3 said:
Magtech and SB are under the same corporation CBC group but I do not believe the primers are made in the same factory.

Mag tech being South America and SB being the Czech Republic, But I did not write the quote above nor do the "test"

http://www.magtechammunition.com/fi...erfire_Primers_SDS-006_-_Primers_Cap_Type.pdf



Click the pdf for msds

https://www.google.com/search?q=sellier+and+bellot+primers+msds&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Click to expand...

I shouldn't have stated that. I took someone else's word for it. Last time I bought S&B primers the vendor had Magtech also. I asked how they were and he said "they're S&B's, all made in the Czech republic".
 
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