Hunters Supply Pentagon Hollow Point
- Thread starter Wishoot
- Start date
Kind of hard to comment on those bullets, never used them and they don't say S#*T about them on the website other than 700fps to 1400fps.
700fps to 1400fps ='s BS
They don't show pictures of the actual hp and seeing a picture is worth a 1000 words. Here's a picture to look at. It's a 245gr swc, same bullet 3 different hp's.
A little hp/lead bullet 101:
The bhn/alloy of a hp that opens at 700fps will be different than the bhn/alloy opens at 1400fps. A pretty good place to start is the bhn of the bullet times 100fps.
7bhn ='s 700fps
8bhn ='s 800fps
12bhn ='s 1200fps
The actual size/shape/depth of the hp will dictate the velocities they will function at. Take the 3 different hp's pictured above. The:
Penta hp is best in the 800fps to 1000fps range
Large round hp is best in the 1000fps to 1200fps range
Small round hp is best in the 1200fps to 1400fps range
When I tried the penta hp with velocities over 1000fps it got real tricky trying to match the correct alloy to the speeds to keep the bullet from exploding/fragging.
The large round hp would open and stay intact at slower speeds (800fps) but that same alloy/bullet would fail when pushed over 1000fps. At the end of the day I run the:
Penta hp up to 1000fps using a 8bhn alloy
Large round hp up to 1200fps using a 12bhn alloy
Small round hp up to 1400fps using a 14bhn alloy
Different hp's that I make/use for the 38spl/357's. Note the green hp (top row/2nd from left) compared to the lavender hp (bottom row/center). The green hp is better at slower speeds and the lavender bullet is specifically designed as a hunting bullet for the 357.
Same bullet, different hp pins used to cast them.
To make a lead hp that has a 1 size fits all is extremely hard to do. The type of hp and the alloy play huge roles in how a lead hp will perform. If I were to pick 1 style/type of hp for a 1 size fits all scenario with lead pistol bullets it would be a cupped hp (cupped ='s large shallow dish shaped hp) in the 11bhn/12bhn range.
That bullet would be ideal for most rounds in the 1000fps to 1200fps range in anything from 9mm's to light bullets in the p+ 45acps & 38spl's, most 357's/40s&w's along with heavy 44spl loads and medium 44mag loads.
Anyway when someone says a lead hp is good for 700fps to 1400fps, I'd stay clear.
A link to some interesting tests. They were done in 1953 using 4 different lead bullets/hp's. They tested the 4 different hp designs (picture shows bullets cut in 1/2 to see hp size & depth) using different alloys (8bhn/10bhn/12bhn).
http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/44 spl - may 1953 american rifleman.pdf
40 to 1 alloy ='s 40 parts lead to 1 part tin or 8bhn
20 to 1 alloy ='s 20 parts lead to 1 part tin or 10bhn
10 to 1 alloy ='s 10 parts lead to 1 part allo of 12bhn
Anyway they knew and understood lead hp's 60+ years ago and those same results sill hold true to this day.
700fps to 1400fps ='s BS
They don't show pictures of the actual hp and seeing a picture is worth a 1000 words. Here's a picture to look at. It's a 245gr swc, same bullet 3 different hp's.
A little hp/lead bullet 101:
The bhn/alloy of a hp that opens at 700fps will be different than the bhn/alloy opens at 1400fps. A pretty good place to start is the bhn of the bullet times 100fps.
7bhn ='s 700fps
8bhn ='s 800fps
12bhn ='s 1200fps
The actual size/shape/depth of the hp will dictate the velocities they will function at. Take the 3 different hp's pictured above. The:
Penta hp is best in the 800fps to 1000fps range
Large round hp is best in the 1000fps to 1200fps range
Small round hp is best in the 1200fps to 1400fps range
When I tried the penta hp with velocities over 1000fps it got real tricky trying to match the correct alloy to the speeds to keep the bullet from exploding/fragging.
The large round hp would open and stay intact at slower speeds (800fps) but that same alloy/bullet would fail when pushed over 1000fps. At the end of the day I run the:
Penta hp up to 1000fps using a 8bhn alloy
Large round hp up to 1200fps using a 12bhn alloy
Small round hp up to 1400fps using a 14bhn alloy
Different hp's that I make/use for the 38spl/357's. Note the green hp (top row/2nd from left) compared to the lavender hp (bottom row/center). The green hp is better at slower speeds and the lavender bullet is specifically designed as a hunting bullet for the 357.
Same bullet, different hp pins used to cast them.
To make a lead hp that has a 1 size fits all is extremely hard to do. The type of hp and the alloy play huge roles in how a lead hp will perform. If I were to pick 1 style/type of hp for a 1 size fits all scenario with lead pistol bullets it would be a cupped hp (cupped ='s large shallow dish shaped hp) in the 11bhn/12bhn range.
That bullet would be ideal for most rounds in the 1000fps to 1200fps range in anything from 9mm's to light bullets in the p+ 45acps & 38spl's, most 357's/40s&w's along with heavy 44spl loads and medium 44mag loads.
Anyway when someone says a lead hp is good for 700fps to 1400fps, I'd stay clear.
A link to some interesting tests. They were done in 1953 using 4 different lead bullets/hp's. They tested the 4 different hp designs (picture shows bullets cut in 1/2 to see hp size & depth) using different alloys (8bhn/10bhn/12bhn).
http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/44 spl - may 1953 american rifleman.pdf
40 to 1 alloy ='s 40 parts lead to 1 part tin or 8bhn
20 to 1 alloy ='s 20 parts lead to 1 part tin or 10bhn
10 to 1 alloy ='s 10 parts lead to 1 part allo of 12bhn
Anyway they knew and understood lead hp's 60+ years ago and those same results sill hold true to this day.
Kind of hard to comment on those bullets, never used them and they don't say S#*T about them on the website other than 700fps to 1400fps.
700fps to 1400fps ='s BS
They don't show pictures of the actual hp and seeing a picture is worth a 1000 words. Here's a picture to look at. It's a 245gr swc, same bullet 3 different hp's.
A little hp/lead bullet 101:
The bhn/alloy of a hp that opens at 700fps will be different than the bhn/alloy opens at 1400fps. A pretty good place to start is the bhn of the bullet times 100fps.
7bhn ='s 700fps
8bhn ='s 800fps
12bhn ='s 1200fps
The actual size/shape/depth of the hp will dictate the velocities they will function at. Take the 3 different hp's pictured above. The:
Penta hp is best in the 800fps to 1000fps range
Large round hp is best in the 1000fps to 1200fps range
Small round hp is best in the 1200fps to 1400fps range
When I tried the penta hp with velocities over 1000fps it got real tricky trying to match the correct alloy to the speeds to keep the bullet from exploding/fragging.
The large round hp would open and stay intact at slower speeds (800fps) but that same alloy/bullet would fail when pushed over 1000fps. At the end of the day I run the:
Penta hp up to 1000fps using a 8bhn alloy
Large round hp up to 1200fps using a 12bhn alloy
Small round hp up to 1400fps using a 14bhn alloy
Different hp's that I make/use for the 38spl/357's. Note the green hp (top row/2nd from left) compared to the lavender hp (bottom row/center). The green hp is better at slower speeds and the lavender bullet is specifically designed as a hunting bullet for the 357.
Same bullet, different hp pins used to cast them.
To make a lead hp that has a 1 size fits all is extremely hard to do. The type of hp and the alloy play huge roles in how a lead hp will perform. If I were to pick 1 style/type of hp for a 1 size fits all scenario with lead pistol bullets it would be a cupped hp (cupped ='s large shallow dish shaped hp) in the 11bhn/12bhn range.
That bullet would be ideal for most rounds in the 1000fps to 1200fps range in anything from 9mm's to light bullets in the p+ 45acps & 38spl's, most 357's/40s&w's along with heavy 44spl loads and medium 44mag loads.
Anyway when someone says a lead hp is good for 700fps to 1400fps, I'd stay clear.
A link to some interesting tests. They were done in 1953 using 4 different lead bullets/hp's. They tested the 4 different hp designs (picture shows bullets cut in 1/2 to see hp size & depth) using different alloys (8bhn/10bhn/12bhn).
http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/44 spl - may 1953 american rifleman.pdf
40 to 1 alloy ='s 40 parts lead to 1 part tin or 8bhn
20 to 1 alloy ='s 20 parts lead to 1 part tin or 10bhn
10 to 1 alloy ='s 10 parts lead to 1 part allo of 12bhn
Anyway they knew and understood lead hp's 60+ years ago and those same results sill hold true to this day.
All very interesting. Thank you for the link too!
hdwhit
Well-known member
No, I have not tested them.
But since your question relates to hollow points generically, I will point out that - depending on how "hard" the lead alloy is - a hollow point bullet will expand at velocities above about 700 feet per second.
Plus 1 with post #3;
A good bullet company should list the bullets hardness.
The BNH goes along with the correct fps for the bullet.
I also agree with 700-1400fps is BS.......... for a single bullet.
It will not work well at one end of the speed duration.
Give the company a call.
A good bullet company should list the bullets hardness.
The BNH goes along with the correct fps for the bullet.
I also agree with 700-1400fps is BS.......... for a single bullet.
It will not work well at one end of the speed duration.
Give the company a call.
Well all a guy has to do it actually look it up.
A great bullet for competitive shooting or small and medium-sized game, these high-quality cast bullets are composed of 5% tin and 95% lead with a Brinell hardness of 10. They are rated to 1600 fps without gas checks. The bullet lube is designed for use with smokeless powder, but it will work with blackpowder firearms that have barrels less than 20" long. The alloy is lab text certified before casting. The Pentagon shape in the hollow point helps create stronger petals upon expansion. This is not loaded ammunition.
Technical Information Caliber: 38
Bullet Diameter: 0.357
Bullet Weight: 158 Grains
Bullet Style: Pentagon Hollow Point
Bullet Coating: Non-coated
Hunters Supply Hard Cast Bullets 38 Cal (357 Diameter) 158 Grain Lead
A great bullet for competitive shooting or small and medium-sized game, these high-quality cast bullets are composed of 5% tin and 95% lead with a Brinell hardness of 10. They are rated to 1600 fps without gas checks. The bullet lube is designed for use with smokeless powder, but it will work with blackpowder firearms that have barrels less than 20" long. The alloy is lab text certified before casting. The Pentagon shape in the hollow point helps create stronger petals upon expansion. This is not loaded ammunition.
Technical Information Caliber: 38
Bullet Diameter: 0.357
Bullet Weight: 158 Grains
Bullet Style: Pentagon Hollow Point
Bullet Coating: Non-coated
Hunters Supply Hard Cast Bullets 38 Cal (357 Diameter) 158 Grain Lead
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