Small Rifle Primers in Pistol Cartridges

Alk8944

Alk8944

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One recurring thread theme is use of Small Rifle Primers in pistol and revolver cartridges. Invariably there are several who opine that this will not work because rifle primers are thicker, harder, etc. and will invariably give high rates of failures to fire because everyone knows that handguns don't have the hammer/striker energy to fire them reliably. BS!

For many years I have used SRP in some cartridges as a matter of course with no issues. I have chronographed hundreds of rounds of ammunition loaded identically except for use of SP, SPM and SRP, with the result being that there is no more variation in velocity that would be normally experienced with succeeding batches of ammunition. There is virtually no difference in performance!

Just out of curiosity tonight I loaded a few primed cases with CCI Small Rifle Primers in .380 brass just to confirm whether or not you could get reliable ignition in a striker fired .380 with SRP. In this case fired in a Belgian Browning Pocket. 5 rounds were fired and the primers are shown below. Do any of you honestly believe that the firing pin impression in any of these is marginal in the least way? I am looking for those who have real-life personal experience doing this, not stories of what you have heard, read, believe without evidence, etc.

Here are the pictures:
 

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I think the pistol being used and the brand of primers has a lot to do with it. I tried some S&B small rifle primers and couldn't get them to light. I had cartridges with 3 dents on the primer cup and they wouldn't go off. I read the description on the box (in Czech, thanks to the Army, I could read it ;)) and it said primers for Kalashnikov, They worked great in my AR, I figured they were about equal to CCI #41 primers. I've not had problem with CCI #400 SRP or Winchester small rifle. I sold the 10K S&B small rifle primers to a friend who does 3 gun. Everyone was happy
 
Rifle primers are harder or thicker. Read my chart. The bottom of this page tells all since 2009.:) When I got to the top end of powder charges I started to blow holes in the pistol primer. The case looked good and the primer wasnt flat but the hot load and bullets were doing their thing. Rifle primers were the fix for this 357 rifle load.
 

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Have a Marlin in 357 magnum and always used small pistol primers. Loaded 10 rounds with small rifle primers. Could not get any of them to fire. My old colt trooper III had no problem igniting them. Back to regular small pistol primers. Frank
 
Real life, on my one instance did I use SRP in place of SPP.

Back in the shortage before the 2008 shortage I ran short on SPP so I loaded a full box of SRP (1000) in .38 Special and 9mm cases and I got zero failures.
 
The reloading manuals recommend LRP's for the 460 S&W mag pistol cartridge. Some reloaders take it even further by choosing to use LRMP's.
 
I've fired a few thousand, but all in .38 Special so I can't speak to anything else. When I get around to it I have a couple of guns I can think of to try them in. One is also a striker fired .380 and then I have a Springfield 1911 in 9mm that has always been reliable but doesn't make much of a primer impression.

The question is not so much whether they are, or are not, harder but does it make ignition unreliable.

If an 18oz hammer swung at full force will punch a hole in 1/2" sheetrock, will it punch a hole is 5/8" sheetrock?

You might find a gun with marginal firing pin force where it would be a problem. Kind of like, in the scenario above, if I gave the hammer to my four year old grandson. You'd find somebody who punched a hole in the 1/2" who couldn't in the 5/8". But it is likely a small sample.
 
I've done it without issue, but if you try it with small capacity cartridges like the 380 and 9mm be sure to not be loading near max charges of powder. Not only are rifle primer cups thicker, the priming compound is also considerably hotter. Using rifle primers along with a max load can elevate pressures above SAMMI specs. Those two cartridges are very sensitive to pressure changes. Due to the small volume capacity of the case it doesn't take much at all to push them past rated specs pressure wise.
 
I have used Small Rifle primers in handgun calibers since the late 1960s and have never experienced a problem. Some years ago I did an experiment in making up identical .38 Special loads, differing only in the use of SRPs and SPPs, and firing them in my K-38 over a chronograph. No difference noted in either grouping or MV. The only caution would be that some handguns may not have enough firing pin energy for reliable ignition, so that needs to be determined. But I have not experienced that happening.

Now, to the question of why. Two reasons - first, it simplifies your component inventory if you are also reloading any cartridges using a SRP. Second, in times of panic and stress, as we went through several times during the last administration, SRPs are often more available in dealer stock than SPPs. At the very least, it provides another supply option in the event of future hoarding events.

BTW, a couple of weeks ago I got a real deal on a carton of Magnum SR primers. I loaded some up in .38 Super cases to see if there were any problems, and fired 20 rounds without any misfires. I could never see much need for MSR primers. but they must have some purpose or they wouldn't be made.
 
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There is a difference but it depends on the manufacturer. I think primers made in the US are less likely to be a problem.

Primers made in other countries can be a problem. Recently I had a few hundred rounds of Egyptian Military 9mm ammo. It was manufactured for sub guns. It would not fire in a pistol but worked fine in a 9mm MAC.
 
I think we might need a test of pistol primers in long gun ammo. I can see two possible issues. Are they hot enough for reliable ignition and is the primer cap thick enough to prevent puncture.
 
Many years ago I used a pack of small rifle primers to load some .38 Special cartridges. As I was cleaning up and putting things away I discovered the mistake. Wanting to take no chances with my S&Ws, I asked a friend to test a few in his Ruger .357. :)

After firing a few in the Blackhawk, we tried them in my K38. No problems. Like the OP, since then I have tested small rifle primers in .38s in various guns, and over the chronograph, and never had the first failure to fire, or any other problems.

In my case, the primers were Federal 205s. I can't give advice on this to others but I will say that since that "discovery" I have never hesitated to keep a few thousand more small rifle primers around than I think I might need for rifle shooting. :D
 
FWP said:
I think we might need a test of pistol primers in long gun ammo. I can see two possible issues. Are they hot enough for reliable ignition and is the primer cap thick enough to prevent puncture.
Click to expand...

Not a good idea. Pistol primers, for the most part, have thinner cups and are not intended to handle the higher chamber pressures of full CF rifle loads with smokeless powder. So there is the danger of cup failure unless you are talking about very light CF rifle loadings. Conversely, LR primers are a bit longer than LP primers, and usually cannot be seated flush with the case head in pistol cases as the primer pocket is not deep enough. I think the .460 and .500 primer pockets are a bit deeper to accommodate LRPs.

I shoot 9x23mm Winchester, which is one of the higher pressure handgun loads. SRPs must be used in reloading it for safety.
 
My one use of a small rifle primer in handguns is with my M&P 32-20. After a frustrating time trying to come up with a accurate load using Rainier's 100gr bullet I found a load using the CCI 450 as the primer that would shoot acceptable groups. Goes boom every time so ignition is not a problem in this combo.
 
The rifle primers should work in any gun with a 100% fully functional hammer or striker. If your gun won’t light off the rifle primers I'd be concerned that some thing is possibly wrong because its probably on the verge of not striking the pistol primers not hard enough. I wonder if you could lighten the mainspring on a S&W revolver to the point where it would reliably ignite the pistol primers but not reliably ignite the rifle primers?
 
I'll not disparage anyone for their primer selection, though I'll continue to use those recommended for the particular application. I keep thinking there is a legitimate reason the manufacturer made such a recommendation, but perhaps it is a marketing ploy.
 
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