Problems with my 30-30 load

LD-Ordie

LD-Ordie

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So here's my scenario, I decided to take a shot at reloading rounds for my Winchester pre 64 30-30 for general plinking. I did not find a lot of sources for plated bullets other than Extreme and Berry's, so I ended up buying 500 rounds of 150gr from Extreme during one of their sales. Loading was pretty straight forward, I used a full length RCBS die set with a Lee crimp die thru my Dillon 550B press. Load data came right out of my Modern reloading book by Richard Lee. I used 28.7 gr. of IMR3031 with an OAL of 2.550 with a velocity average of 2156. I did a light crimp of .001 less than neck size. So I ran 10 rounds thru my Chronograph with another 10 rounds at a target @ 100 yards. So my problem is, 50% of my shots were 5' or so off target. I did read that other loaders complained about wandering bullets on their site, but others saying they were spot on. All my factory rounds are spot on. I do realize their recommended velocity was 1950, I was thinking of playing with my load to get it below 1950, but I thought it might help to reach out to someone who has been down this road before. Anyone have any experience with Berry's? or another plated plinking type bullet? Anybody got any ideas? I appreciate any help in advance
 
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Try using real jacket bullets instead of a plated bullet. Ammo used in a rifle with a tubular magazine such as a M94 needs a firm crimp and that is generally not conducive to the use of plated lead bullets.

Bruce
 
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I load a lot of 30/30, have never loaded plated bullets in anything
I do several cast loads, but for fooling around use 1/2 jacket
Plinkers, 100gr. There is also several bullets intended for M1
carbine that work well. I still load on a single stage and my
30/30 dies are over 50yrs old. 5' off would seem to me bullet
trouble- since you have no problem with factory ammo. I still
load a lot of cast in handgun and old Guns that were designed
for lead. In 30/30 I stick with jackets.
 
Drm50 said:
I load a lot of 30/30, have never loaded plated bullets in anything
I do several cast loads, but for fooling around use 1/2 jacket
Plinkers, 100gr. There is also several bullets intended for M1
carbine that work well. I still load on a single stage and my
30/30 dies are over 50yrs old. 5' off would seem to me bullet
trouble- since you have no problem with factory ammo. I still
load a lot of cast in handgun and old Guns that were designed
for lead. In 30/30 I stick with jackets.
Click to expand...

Thanks DRM50, could you please suggest a source?
 
Your loads are simply too hot for plated bullets. Did you miss the caution about staying under 1950 fps on the Berry listing for the 30/30 plated bullets?
I got too hot with some .40 cal plated bullets and it looked like shotgun patterns, not groups.
 
Really need information like bullet diameter, hardness, and a lot more, but...I tried plated bullets once, .38 wadcutters, and saw no point in trying them again. However, I would treat plated rifle bullets like cast and seat the bullet to where the bullet is slightly engraved by the lands when the cartridge is chambered. Seating short of the lands almost guarantees a deterioration in accuracy.

You could probably decrease your powder charge significantly; check a load manual with cast bullet data. The Lee book will probably work but the Lyman is better. In my opinion, Reloder 7, 5744, or one of the 4198s would be better powders, but do more work with your 3031 since you already have it. It may prove quite satisfactory.

Before you do any crimping for magazine use, shoot the bullet without any crimp. Adjust your seating die just to where the bell is taken out of the case neck and the cartridge chambers without difficulty. If you later choose to crimp for magazine use, crimp just enough to keep the bullet from moving under recoil, no more. Your loads will probably shoot more accurately without a crimp.

As for bullet diameter, most .30-30s should shoot okay with a .309" bullet, but will probably be more accurate with a .310" or .311", though you may have to turn case necks with the latter. I have no idea what diameters are offered by commercial casters. Good luck-
 
Your loads are simply too hot for plated bullets.
Click to expand...
I agree. Yours are WAY too fast for a plated bullet. I load a lot of 30-30 also and typically use the 100 gr Speer plinkers with 12 grains of Unique and this is a deadly accurate combo and chrono at about 1700 + FPS.. I was recently given a box of the 110 gr. JHP and they shot well also. I think you can get the plated to shoot well but will need to reduce your loads and Unique at 8-12 grains ahead of nearly any cast bullet is 'old school' reduced 30-30 data. You mentioned a Lee crimp die so I assume you mean the 'Factory Crimp Die' - if that is it good but don't crimp too tightly. I am hitting a 2" gong at 50 yards with an 1899 Klondike Sporting Rifle with the Speer Plinker loads.
 
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LD-Ordie said:
Thanks DRM50, could you please suggest a source?
Click to expand...

Hornady & Sierra both make the 100g 1/2 jacket, I load them
with 6.5gr Unique / MV 1210fps
Speer makes 110grHP, called Varmiter and that's what I use it
for. Load 37.0gr of IMR-4064/ MV 2710
I load the Sierra RN-FMJ M1 Carbine bullet with same load as
the Speer 110hp
My standard Deer load 150gr RN / 32.5g of IMR-3031/ 2300 fps
Here is a very accurate HV load, it uses a pointed bullet so it
has to be single loaded *****I have not shot this in a 94Win,
am using 336 Marlin****Notice*******Hot Load************
Speer 130gr Hp / 35.0g of Win 748 / 2600fps*******Hot Load
Proceed with caution, I would start at 30.0g and work up.*******
I have made guys that badmouth 30/30 talk to themselves over
this load.
 
I have used Gas Checked 117 grain FN soft-cast sized .309", in my 30-30 at 32-20 velocities several times. I have a Savage 24 in 30-30/20 gauge. The 32-20 load is a great game getter!

Ivan
 
Thanks to all for the suggestions! I just loaded up 10 rounds with 26gr of IMR3031 and will work to get it closer to 1900, then will continue to lower the velocity and see if accuracy improves. It would be nice to be able to use up what I currently have, then move on to a better bullet like suggested
 
It would be nice to be able to use up what I currently have, then move on to a better bullet like suggested
Click to expand...
You kind of need to make a decision as you don't want to drop the 3031 too much lower or you may not get good ignition and have other problems like squibs. If you want to continue using the 3031 then get the Speer plinkers as I used to load them with 3031 - or go to Unique powder to load down the plated bullets you have. You can't just keep dropping the 3031 or you will have problems.
 
At the velocity you are trying to use, a gas check is mandatory if you are using lead projectiles. Without it , you have results like you have mentioned.

Randy
 
Try an 'M' die....

I wonder if the cartridges aren't 'shrinking' in the magazine because there is no good way to crimp plated bullets.

I've only used plated for special reasons and find lead, coated lead or jacketed to give the best results. I love shooting the plinkers plus the fact they are cheaper than other manufactured bullets.

I wonder rather than crimping, using an 'M' die to set the depth the bullet can go in would help??? I see Lyman makes one for the 30-30 Win under $25. There's another .30 cal M die but it says it's not to be used on the 30-30. 4198 seems to be the ticket in the IMR powders.

A really good IMR powder especially for reduced loads is SR 4759, if you can find any, because it is supposed to be discontinued but I still see it on the shelves.


PS Looking on the IMR website data 3031 doesn't look suitable for what you are doing.
I've used Unique and IMR 4759 for loads under 2000 fps. IMR 4198 gets around 1800 fps.
 
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IMR3031 has been the old standard for jacketed bullets (150 & 170gr) in the 30-30 for years.
Check the data again and make sure the loads data isn't for 150 Jacketed bullets,, and not inclusive of cast lead bullets.
LEE often simplified data and listed jacketed & cast bullets of the same weight under the same powder charge loads. Don't know if they still do that.
Plated lead is still a lead bullet, it's not a real jacketed bullet.

IMR only lists a jacketed bullet load w/ 3031 that I could find.

H4895 works very nicely in the 30-30 w/ 150 cast. I use it in the 30 Remington also.

I think you're just pushing the lead bullets too fast and the powder doesn't lend itself well to a deduction to the velocitys you want to get down to w/lead bullets.

The 30-30 is a very accurate lead bullet cartridge at mid-range velocitys and below.

added:
If you just want a light comfortable plinking load w/the cast bullet,,Red Dot powder loads in 30-30 are very nice.
Anywhere betw 6.0 to 7.0 gr RedDot under a 150 to 170 gr bullet.
The only one I ever got to check the vel on was some 165gr GC w/ 6.5gr RedDot. They went out at 1050fps IIRC (24" rifle bbl).
Plenty of powders in that catagory (shotgun/pistol) to use for light loads. Very accurate too.
 
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26 grains is still too heavy a charge for good accuracy with the bullets you are using. I'd go to about 22 or 23 grains if ignition is okay. If accuracy doesn't pick up at those charge weights, go with a more suitable powder.

Someone mentioned SR4759. This is an excellent powder for cast loads, but I didn't mention it in my original post because it's been discontinued.
 
I can't help but recommend Unique - it is listed for use in reduced loads in a wide variety of cartridges in older manuals - I don't know why not in newer manuals but reduced loads in general don't seem to have made it into them.
 
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