.38 SPL 158 gr. LSWC +P load?

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dmn57

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Hello all,

Still getting used to the site but I have a question already. I'm working with a buddy that reloads and I want to come up with a .38 recipe that will yield somewhere around 950 fps from a 4" barrel with 158 grain hard cast LSWC bullets using Titegroup powder. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
 
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Hodgdon list 3.8gr as the normal pressure max @ 920 fps from a 7.7" barrel.

However, their max for lead bullets is always about where they think leading will start, not where the pressure exceeds standards. I'd start at 3.5 gr and work my way up in .2 gr increments while watching carefully for signs of overpressure. I bet you'll get to 950 fps before you see any signs.

Titegroup may not be the optimal powder for this. You'd probly be better off with a slightly slower powder.
 
bmcgilvray said:
Some .38 Special Chronograph Tests
I'll retread this old thread. Post No. 41 will show the velocity range you require, achieved with 5.1 grains of Unique.
Click to expand...

Good link.

FWIW Unique loads in the 5.0-5.5 grains range with a 158-160 grain SWC are just as safe today as they were from the 1930s through 1970s when many manuals published loads in this range. Millions, if not billions, of rounds with these loads have been fired in .38 Spl. revolvers during the past 80+ years with no damage being done to the guns they were fired in. This includes early S&Ws that were pre-heattreat production.

This is a very true statement about many current manuals: "However, their max for lead bullets is always about where they think leading will start, not where the pressure exceeds standards."

"Back-in-the-day" we weren't afraid of leading as almost everyone seems to be now! It was considered normal and it was simply dealt with by cleaning our guns after shooting them. Anyone that feels that cleaning your gun is too big a chore to contemplate then maybe they should take up some other hobby that doesn't require so much after-care of their equipment.
 
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Alk8944 said:
FWIW Unique loads in the 5.0-5.5 grains range with a 158-160 grain SWC are just as safe today as they were from the 1930s through 1970s when many manuals published loads in this range. Millions, if not billions, of rounds with these loads have been fired in .38 Spl. revolvers during the past 80+ years with no damage being done to the guns they were fired in. This includes early S&Ws that were pre-heattreat production.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I'm planning on using these rounds in models 10, 12, 14, 15 and 64 as well as a few .357's.
 
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The IMR website lists 4.3grs Titegroup as a max +P load for a 158gr jacketed bullet.
Your choronograph will most likely tell you this load yields 850-900 fps out of the 4" gun you mentioned with a cast bullet of the same weight.
Putting any more than 4.3grs Titegroup behing that bullet will raise pressures quite a bit.

950 fps might be a long poke for Titegroup here keeping withing SAAMI pressure specs.
Interestingly, I don't find Titegroup listed an any of the loading manuals I have handy for this application. This generally means that the folks that put the manuals together didn't find Titegroup to be an optimum choice.

I would suggest a slower burning powder like Unique,Herco, BE-86 or Power Pistol.. Just a few that come to mind.
Even with these you will be right at or just a little over max pressure specs at 950 fps.
 
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RDub said:
Putting any more than 4.3grs Titegroup behing that bullet will raise pressures quite a bit.
Click to expand...

I guess that explains why my reloader couldn't find any Titegroup recipes that called for more than 4.3 grains. Looks like Unique or one of the other powders will be the ticket. I'd be thrilled with replicating the Remington +P load from bmcgilvray's link:

158 grain lead SWC
MV 942 fps
ME 311 ft./lbs.

Thanks.
 
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dmn57 said:
Thanks BC38.
Click to expand...

De nada.

Be sure to check any data from that site (or from any other source - printed or web) against other reliable sources before you use it.

That's just a good practice to follow with all new reloading recipes. Cross checking is a critical component of safe reloading.

I also always start with either the minimum recommended amounts of powder - or at least in the middle of the range - and work my way up. Never start at the max charge.
 
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HS-6 , with a small pistol magnum primer will get you what you want and will do it with less pressure . You will have to use older load data . Current load data is very weak . And I also recommend Unique . Again using older load data . I still use the older loads in my older guns with complete satisfaction . Good Luck , Regards, Paul
 
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cowboy4evr said:
HS-6 , with a small pistol magnum primer will get you what you want and will do it with less pressure . You will have to use older load data . Current load data is very weak . And I also recommend Unique . Again using older load data . I still use the older loads in my older guns with complete satisfaction . Good Luck , Regards, Paul
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul.
 
Alk8944 said:
"Back-in-the-day" we weren't afraid of leading as almost everyone seems to be now! ...
Anyone that feels that cleaning your gun is too big a chore to contemplate then maybe they should take up some other hobby that doesn't require so much after-care of their equipment.
Click to expand...

That's like saying it's gotta hurt to feel better. :p

IMO, it's smart to switch to something that doesn't give you leading problems than to keep living with it.

Cleaning's not a problem. Scrubbing out a heavily leaded barrel is!

I'm not that nostalgic, I switched.

.
 
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As usual lots of replies that don't actually answer your question. The dire
warnings about leading generally apply to soft swaged bullets, not the
hard cast bullets you plan to use. Here are a few loads chronographed
out of my 4" 10-5 with magnum primers and a 158 gr cast SWC.
4.4 grs Titegroup vel = 944 fps
5.5 grs Longshot vel = 954 fps
4.8 grs 231 vel = 960 fps
5.1 grs 231 vel = 1003 fps
From what I read in the various manuals I believe these loads to be
only slightly above standard pressure if they are +P at all. Hope this
helps.
 
dmn57 said:
Hello all,

Still getting used to the site but I have a question already. I'm working with a buddy that reloads and I want to come up with a .38 recipe that will yield somewhere around 950 fps from a 4" barrel with 158 grain hard cast LSWC bullets using Titegroup powder. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Click to expand...

I'm far from a handloading expert, but it appears you've received some good advice on here and some that's not. Best to start with a Lyman cast bullet manual and look at reputable manufacturers' websites for data.
 
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