My sons and I shoot in a semi-monthly semi auto military silhouette match. We usually shoot Ljungmans, but occasionally will use a Hakim or Garand.




I've been using 36 grains of IMR 4064/140 gr Nosler Custom Competition
I'm also hitting about 5" above point of aim @ 100 yards with this load. My point of aim is 6 o'clock "pumpkin on a post". Both our Ljungmans have the +0.5 front sight.

Usually have a nice group and a flyer. This is typical...

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Recently began to refine my Ljungman loads. I reduced the powder charge from 36.0 to 34.5 grs of 4064, with Nosler 140 gr CC bullets, Prvi brass, CCI 34 primers, OAL 3.015. This shrank my groups a bit. It also tamed the extraction/ejection sequence a bit.

5 shot groups @ 100 yards

Have you had any luck with the factory Prvi that shoots so well in your 1896?

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Release the Kraken

Hi, Steve! How have you been?

I've tried the 139 gr Prvi, the Hornady 140 gr match, the 142 gr Fiocci, the 140 gr Nosler ammo and even 140 gr Swedish surplus. They all shoot pretty well, but the problem with them is that they are all loaded with slow burning powder which makes the extraction/ejection sequence almost violent. Torn rims were common. The shells were sometimes thrown 30 or 40 feet

Like the Garand, the Ljungman seems to like medium burning powders like 4064. There is no op rod like on the Garand to damage, but I still felt uneasy subjecting the action to the pounding that the commercial ammo was giving it. The reloads are much easier on the gun and seem to be at least as precise, possibly more so, as the commercial.

Sounds like the same issue I had with my FN-49. The PPU clone of the German 7.92x57 198gr ammo was plain nasty no matter how I adjusted the gas. The stuff marked 8x57 was fine and obviously loaded much more tamely.

I'm doing OK. I remarried last year. Haven't snagged too many milsurps lately as they have all been selling for stupid money and I'm a a cheap b.. errm cheapskate. Did score a No.1 MkVI rebuilt in No.4 form (like most were) and a 1912 New Zealand No.1 MkIII with volley sights.

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Release the Kraken

Hey, congratulations on the marriage! I'm happy to hear that.

I've never been able to find the hot loaded 7.92 x57 IS 198 gr PPU ammo. The only thing I've ever found is the much tamer 8x57 stuff. Where did you find that hot stuff? Ever try it in any bolt guns?

Sounds like your keeping up with the milsurp stuff. Do you still post on the milsurp forums?

The hot PPU came in a job lot of ammo I snagged somewhere. It was a while ago and I cannot recall if I loosed a few from a bolt gun, but I do recall that the recall was stout in the FN-49.

Yes, I keep an eye on the milsurp stuff. The way prices have gone lately I think I need to up my insurance. I did score a nice little Brazilian 1908/34 still 7mm...with a rather rusty bore.

Brazilian 1908/34 restoration advice needed. Pics added.

Oh well, I got it cheap and maybe it will shoot clean. Evaporust removed the nasty rust on the furniture so some cold bluing needs to follow just to make it tidy. I won't say restored, I'm not that skilled.

Here's the No.1 MkVI. I also posted about it on the Enfield area of gunboards. WWII Unicorn rifle

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Release the Kraken

I don't doubt it was stouter...I believe the 198 gr bullet leaves the rifle at about 300 fps faster that the 200 gr bullet in their 8x57 target load.

Congrats on that Brazilian. I love almost any 7x57 rifle.

That converted trials rifle is amazing. I've read about them, but do not know anyone who actually has one.

Stay in touch

Even more amazing was the price. You've watched me at enough auctions to know I'm probably not paying the market rate. In this case the auction made it easy. No mention of No.1 MkVI anywhere, just "Enfield rifle".

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Release the Kraken

I've owned an AG42b since the early 1980s, but haven't fired it for about 25 years. When I bought it, it came with the original leather sling, bayonet, and a small spare parts kit in a pouch. I haven't seen one at a gun show for a very long time, and had understood that none were ever legally imported. Those seen in the US all supposedly walked across the Canadian border or arrived here in other ways. True or not, I cannot say. Back when I was shooting it, I also used IMR 4064 as it seemed to work better, and I also remember using IMR 4320 with no problems. I generally used only 130 grain bullets. I formed many 6.5x55 cases from .30-'06 brass, they worked OK despite the fact that the case diameter is a bit undersized. One of the differences between the Hakim and the AG42 is that the Hakim has an adjustable throttle valve on the gas tube. On my Hakim, I have to keep that throttle valve nearly closed to use my hoard of Turkish 8x57 ammo I came into very cheaply some years back. It pulled off case rims frequently and threw brass a mile away if the valve was too far open.

Speaking of the import situation, I used to see Ljungmans and Hakims when I lived in Canada. This was before the repeal of a lot of the more onerous GCA-68 rules.
Everything was cheap and plentiful there, but dried up in the 80s as the US market was more lucrative.

I never owned either, but it looks like you're getting some great performance out of that Ljungman!
Nice job!

I never owned a Ljungman but I've shot them and they seemed to be a decent rifle. I can't say that about Hakims. I had a couple of them and neither was worth wasting ammo in. FN 49s they ain't.

I own a Swedish Husqvarna ljungman and a Egyptian hakim. The hakim is a beast, I filed in two more gas valve knotches lower for less gas the system sees to operate it. My ljungman I never shot yet. I been to busy shooting my 1907 Swede m96 carl gustaf mauser. I purchased the taller front sight and filed it down to sight the rifle in at 100 yds. She shoots 1 1/2” groups at 109yds using sellier n bellot 6,5 mm 131 gr sp ammo. I like the Swede 6,5 mm and the Chilean/Brazilian 7 mm mausers.

The 8 mm mauser ammo made here in the USA is wimpy, down loaded. The sellier n bellot 8 mm ammo is loaded to the 8 mm specs. The 8 mm ammo when loaded correctly out performs the 30-06. I have some Swede m41 b surplus ammo tucked away.

We filed in two lower gas settings on the hakim. The FNM ammo was the first ammo maker to offer the Swede 6,5 mm new ammo. Before there was ammo for the Swedish mauser the rifles were $20 each they couldn’t give them away. The FNM Ammo was a quality Yugo brass andvit you weren’t loading hot loads some were getting over 15 times reloading that brass.

For the small rusty parts why not replace them at e gun parts?
I buffed some on my wire wheel grinder. Then reblued them. Did you remove the barreled receiver from the stock? How bad is the rust below the stock line?

The IMR 4895 has the correct burn rate for the military semi autos. We used the cci#34 primers in the semi auto rifles. They have a thicker wall for floating firing pins plus there a tad hotter.

Two different operating gas systems. the fn49 the more the gas valve is open the more the gas is exhausted away from the system. With the hakim and Rasheed the more the gas valves are closed the less pressure the gas system sees to operate it.

Years ago they thought they were having out of battery firings with the hakim. We figured it out if the gas valve was too far open the bolt could open up the chamber before the bullet leaves the barrel. There’s 50k psi breech pressure in the chamber.

Regarding the forming of 6.5x55 cases from .30-'06, the base of the .30-'06 case is slightly undersize. What I have always done is to run a few turns of 1/4" wide masking tape around the base of the re-formed .30-'06 case for the first shot to act as a centralizer in the chamber. That prevents a significant bulge at the first firing. After that, the tape is no longer needed. Back when I got my first 6.5 rifle (a Swede M94 from Carl Gustaf) back in the early 1960s, there wasn't much choice in factory ammo, mainly Norma or milsurp, I once bought some 6.5 cases from Herter's (the old original Herter's), but it was very poor quality and lasted for only two or three reloads before neck splits. I have formed hundreds of 6.5 cases from .30-'06, never any problems with those. I even shot bench rest with them (In a custom rifle with a Mauser action and a Douglas HB). One interesting observation from that experience was that Mauser loved 130 grain RN bullets, they produced significantly better grouping than any other weight or type. I wish I still had that rifle.

NICE GUN...You're lucky you can still own 'em…
Love that 6.5x55 rnd...after my SMLE my old M1895 is 2nd fave service rifle. Albeit not Swedish but have just bought a Zoli in 6.5x55 - has beautiful wood...

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DCCUK

Thanks, 6string.

When shooting it at the matches, it is common for my son to place either 1st or 2nd when shooting the Ljungman. I'm usually behind him.

I've got several Hakims and find them to be reasonably accurate. I guess that isn't surprising given that they were made with the Ljungman tooling, under the supervision of the Swedes.

I use IMR 4064 in most of my surplus rifles and haven't found a surplus rifle yet that won't shoot decently with 4064. I do use 4320 in my Argentine Mausers and they really like the stuff.

That is not my experience. I've got several Hakims and a number of FN 49's (3 Egyptians in 8mm, a Venezuelan in 7x57 and a Belgium in 30.06.

My Hakims will generally keep up with the Egyptian FN49's.

How do you find the S&B "full charge" 8mm ammo to be accuracy--wise?

I use 4064, which is fairly close to 4895. I also use the CCI 34 primers, for the reason that you mentioned. Supposedly the Ljungman's firing pin is not floating, so it should not require the 34, but I find it easier to do all my semi auto loads with the 34.

I mainly use Prvi Partizan 6.5 x 55 cases., although I have a large number of PMC and Nosler cases. I still have a 200 round case of Surplus somewhere and 1K of the old wooden bullet practice ammo.

I reload all my 6.5 mm Swede ammo with the cci #34 primers even for my bolt actions so there’s no mix up between the bolt actions and semi autos.

I find the s&w ammo to be very accurate of course if your bore is good. I benchrested my hakim at 100yds using the PMC 8 mm 170 gr sp ammo and found it accurate good enough to hunt with. The PMC ammo in 6,5 mm Swede it a tad hot for the ljungman.

I posted about Ljungman reloading on The Firing Line forums and the Admin posted about the CCI 34's. I found it interesting...

Reloading for the Swedish AG 42 Ljungman - The Firing Line Forums

"In a telephone conversation with CCI, they explained the CCI #34 is identical to the CCI 250 magnum primer (same cup, same priming compound) except the anvil is made with a wider included angle between its legs, making it shorter and less rigid. The result is it requires a more energetic firing pin strike than is needed for a 250. This is a match to the U.S. Military primer sensitivity specification, which calls for higher firing energy (25 oz-in average) than most commercial primers do. The anvil alteration also shortens the primer slightly so that if you use the standard reconsolidation specification (seating for 0.003" anvil crush past the point where the anvil feet first touch the bottom of the primer pocket), you will have a primer slightly more deeply recessed below the case head than the commercial version would be.

The seating depth and the lowered sensitivity of the #34 both reduce the probability of a slamfire with a floating firing pin gun. However, a look at the manual for the AG 42 Ljungman indicates it has a firing pin spring and not a floating firing pin, so you need to use anything other than a standard commercial primers in it (unless you just don't want to buy different primers from those you use in your Garand, which has a floating firing pin). You can tell by ejecting a self-loaded round and looking for a small firing pin mark on the primer. If it has one, use the #34's. If it doesn't, use whatever produces the best accuracy and you will suffer no deficit in safety."

Hi!
Do I understand that you use these in silhouette matches?
That is a fantastic idea for these nice military arms.

Jim

".....it is common for my son to place either 1st or 2nd when shooting the Ljungman. I'm usually behind him."

That's a good place to be, if the two I shot decades ago were any indication - they could really fling some brass.

And give your thumb an ouchie if not careful.
Now, I doubt I could even hoist one to shoot offhand.

Jim, we do indeed.

I'm lucky to live near and be a member of an excellent shooting range complex. It has about 15 different ranges from 50 yard small bore to 1000 long range. My sons and I shoot in several different matches...a "vintage military silhouette match" which involves shooting chicken, pig, turkey and ram silhouettes at ranges of 220 yards (chickens), 330 yards (pigs), 420 yds (turkeys) and rams (550) yards. Rifles are 50 year old "as issued" rifles, shot prone off a soft front rest (sand bag or backpack). Here's a picture of the silhouette range at my club:




We also shoot these same rifles in a " long range" vintage military match. This is a match shot at paper bullseye targets at 300, 500, 600, and 800 yards.

This match is shot at the 1000 yard range at the top of this satellite picture

https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=38...=h&form=LMLTCC

You can see the silhouette range in the middle of the complex, with the staggered berms.

These are a couple of old match results, which are representative of how my son did with the Ljungman.

They really can fling the brass. I tamed that tendency, to some extent, with medium burning powder.

And you are right, Ljungman thumb makes Garand thumb look like a love tap.

Attached Files

	82315SA match.pdf (10.2 KB, 7 views)
	Semi-Auto Military Silhouette Results amended 28February16.pdf (12.9 KB, 4 views)

I got out to the range a few weekends ago and took a few shots with my other Ljungman using the lighter loads. This time I was on the 200 yard range and I got the usual 4 decent shots and a flyer.

The 4 shot group was 2.25", or a little over 1 MOA. The flyer opened the group up to about 2 MOA. Group was shot with the rear sight set @ 100m

My youngest son and I shot the match with our Ljungmans. As usual, he kicked my *****.

Match is 40 rounds, 10 rounds each at chickens (220 yards), pigs (330 yards), turkeys (420 yards), and rams (550 yards), shot with military semi auto rifles. Match winner come from the "as issued" vintage class.

Here's a pic of the range...



As you can see from the results sheet, there ain't much "vintage" left in the "vintage" match.

Attached Files

8.24.2019pdf.pdf (180.8 KB, 13 views)