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Old 11-17-2019, 06:50 PM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
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Default Removing Primer Pocket Crimp in Military Brass

Been reloading for 6 years now but only pistol. Getting ready to take the plunge with .223. I’ve been saving my brass for a while which has been mostly Federal bulk pack from Walmart. But I also have been picking up range brass.

So what headstamps should I be looking for to isolate military brass? And how do I remove the crimp? I’ve watched a few videos but they’re not really zoomed in and I don’t see a whole lot of difference between crimped and non-crimped pockets.

I have dies on the way so all my brass will be re-sized and then measured. I plan to eventually get the Frankfort Arsenal Case Prep Center so I can do all my trimming and case prep at once. Would the primer crimp tool be able to attach to the FA station in place of the primer pocket cleaning tool?
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:59 PM
Patches09 Patches09 is offline
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I guess there are tools you can use to remove the crimp on military brass but I've always just used a good knive with a sharp edge to remove them. Never had a problem doing so.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:03 PM
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If you have picked up any military surplus brass with the NATO cross on the headstamp it will have crimped primers for you to compare with commercial brass. Look for a ring around the primer pocket that may even be a little off center. How you choose to remove the crimp will probably depend on how much brass you have to process. If only a small amount you can remove the crimp with a dedicated reamer or I started out using the reaming end of a standard chamfer/reaming tool. If you are going to be processing increasing amounts of brass you may want to look into one of the swaging tools that swages the crimp out of the pocket. I used the RCBS swaging die set for years but was never really pleased with the operation. Finally broke down and purchased a Dillon Super Swage. While it is expensive, it makes the chore effortless and to me it was worth every penny.Dillon_mount_1.jpg

Dillon_mount_2 (1).jpg

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Old 11-17-2019, 07:39 PM
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Default Dillon Swager

May be expensive but easy to use and you get 5.56 and 7.62 swaging ability.

You should also consider acquiring small base dies to resize the brass shot in military full auto sloppy chambers.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:58 PM
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If you don't want to spend a lot and don't have thousands of cases to remove the crimp from, the RCBS primer pocket swager works very well. I suspect most who criticize this tool never had it properly adjusted.

It takes a bit of trial-and-error adjustment to get it set right, but once done, it never has to be changed and will work on any .223 or 5.56 case with a crimped primer pocket.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:07 PM
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I'd examine any brass that isn't commercially marked (Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc) for crimped primer pockets. I've used the little RCBS tool for years. Just a couple twists in the primer pocket and you're done. I think the tools are around $20 now.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:14 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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I use a primer pocket reamer chucked in a drill press. I can do about 10 per minute that way- basically as fast as you can pick the brass up.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by diyj98 View Post
I'd examine any brass that isn't commercially marked (Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc) for crimped primer pockets. I've used the little RCBS tool for years. Just a couple twists in the primer pocket and you're done. I think the tools are around $20 now.
So military brass has certain markings? I know a lot of my brass is marked FC. Federal I presume?

I’m not gonna be doing tons of brass. I doubt I have more than 700 pieces. But I pick more up every time I go to the range. Truth be told, I only have one .223 and I only shoot it once a year or so. This is more of a preparation for later just to be immune to shortages in the future. Also, I like being self-sufficient. I haven’t fired more than an occasional magazine of carry ammo in 6 years. Everything else is my hand loads.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:58 PM
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US military brass will usually be marked with year and LC, WCC, RA, TW, then you have Taiwan TAA, South Korea PMC, Canada IVI, British RG, Belgium FN and others, German MEN and others Israel IMI and others. Then Denmark, Sweden, Norway, France and others all load their own. All military 5.56 and most bulk and defense commercial loads 5.56 and .223 loads will have crimped primers so even if marked FC it likely will be crimped. As a matter of fact it is pretty rare to find a non crimped .223 factory load, I am sure there are some out there but none of the stuff I see is.

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Old 11-17-2019, 09:08 PM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
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Quote:
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US military brass will usually be marked with year and LC, WCC, RA, TW, then you have Taiwan TAA, South Korea PMC, Canada IVI, British RG, Belgium FN and others, German MEN and others Israel IMI and others. Then Denmark, Sweden, Norway, France and others all load their own. All military 5.56 and most bulk and defense commercial loads 5.56 and .223 loads will have crimped primers so even if marked FC it likely will be crimped. As a matter of fact it is pretty rare to find a non crimped .223 factory load, I am sure there are some out there but none of the stuff I see is.
So I should plan to remove crimp on all my brass.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:17 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
So I should plan to remove crimp on all my brass.
If you want to put a new primer in it, yes.
Get one of these and chuck it directly in your drill press and go to work on it.
Hornady Primer Pocket Reamer Cutter Head Large
Except use the "small" one, not the large.

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Old 11-17-2019, 09:22 PM
DumpStick DumpStick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggernosis View Post
I use a primer pocket reamer chucked in a drill press. I can do about 10 per minute that way- basically as fast as you can pick the brass up.
This is what I do. Very fast.

In response to the OPs other question, the crimp needs removed only once. You will not be crimping the primer back in place when you reload the case.
The original cartridge had the primer crimped in place to avoid the chance of the primer backing out during cycling in an automatic weapon (machine gun).
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:42 PM
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Just a heads up. I have relied on Federal bulk pack for quite a few years.
It has been necessary to remove the primer crimp. Good news is you only need to do it once. It has been very good brass. I cant employ my hands to use the RCBS hand reamer/deburring tool to do this anymore so now I use the Lyman Case Prep Express case prep machine to do the job.
Jim
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:06 PM
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If you get the FA Case Prep Ctr. you can get the crimp reamer tool that fits into one of the stations. That's the easiest thing to do. That's just going to be a reamer bit and will work very well.

YouTube

You don't need a swaging tool. I have an RCBS tool and never use it. Just too much trouble to set up and reaming works better anyway.

I've removed thousands of crimps with this drill bit reamer and a drill with a speed lock.



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  #15  
Old 11-19-2019, 06:53 PM
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I have the Lyman Case Prep center, the crimp removal bits that come with it (which looks just like the Hornady bit) gave me problems. Either not enough of the crimp was removed and I could not seat new primers or removed to much brass and the pockets were loose. I gave up and bought the RCBS small bit and have had great results with it so I went and bought the large bit as well.
I also trim my brass on it using the Lee threaded cutter and case length gage for the caliber, which can be set to trim to a desired length with trial and measuring. Start long and screw the length gage in until you get the desired trim length. It should not move as you trim brass, has stayed in place for me.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:53 PM
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One of the problems with reaming the primer pockets is that with most methods, it's difficult to determine if you've done the correct amount. Too little, you can carve a little more off. Too much and you've now got a potentially dangerous condition.

While I reamed primer pockets for quite awhile, my first swaging tool made me a believer in the method. At least as they made the tool 30+ years ago, the only problem with the RCBS system was that the cup that pops the case off the swaging button is made for the RCBS ram diameter. This may or may not work well with other press brands.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:26 AM
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Dillon Super Swage
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:57 AM
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I've never used a primer pocket reaming tool, but it's always seemed to me that reaming is a less precise method of removing a primer pocket crimp. Looks like it would be easy to enlarge the primer pocket if done incorrectly.

Using a swaging tool eliminates the possibility of enlarging a primer pocket. I've used this method intermittently with both US WWII surplus .30-06 brass in the '60s and more recently with 5.56 /.223 brass. I don't recall ever ruining a primer pocket.
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:12 AM
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If you use a swaging tool make sure to use a heavy duty single stage press. Frame flex , along with brass spring back , can cause incomplete crimp removal .
A universal depriming tool (Lee) will take the wear and tear off your regular depriming die ... use it on the military/crimped in primer stuff .
The best method I've worked out is :
1.) Deprime with Universal Depriming Tool
2.) Swage pocket ... twice
3.) Cut any remaining crimp away with Lyman Primer Pocket Reamer hand tool
4.) Finish up with Lyman Primer primer Pocket Uniforming Tool.

Yes it is 4 steps but when you are done all the cases will be simple to reprime and you only have to do it once .
Swaging alone sometimes doesn't cut it !
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:18 AM
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One thing to remember with the military brass is that the case walls are thicker than standard 223. Some loads become compressed or actually won't fit in the military brass that aren't an issue with 223 brass. This can of course affect bullet seating depth.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:12 AM
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Imise a 45 degree countersink bit in an electric drill.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:27 AM
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I'm all in for buying a new toy/tool. Love them. However, it doesn't really seem like you need one. Once you've learned to identify them toss them in a bucket and some where down the road if you decide you need them then buy one of the mentioned products. I bought the Lyman case prep many years ago. Its okay but I only pull it out of the closet every year or so.
Now if you tend to lean towards OCD (as many rifle reloaders seem to do) then you will be quite happy with it.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:02 PM
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K.I.S.S. When I first encountered military crimped primer pockets I immediately thought of a countersink as just a few thousandths is needed to be removed from the pocket mouth (life long machinist/mechanic). I grabbed a 1/2x60 degree HSS countersink out of my tool box and quite successfully removed a few by hand. I later placed the countersink in my drill and it takes 1/2 second to remove just a few thousandths of an inch of metal at the case's primer pocket mouth. That was 27 years ago and I have done a few (several) thousand since. Rifle and handgun brass (both foreign and domestic), never a problem. In over 30 years of reloading I have never had to "resize", "swage", or "ream" a primer pocket. I now reload just 9 cartridges as I no longer shoot my .223, 303B, 30-30, 7.62x54r much anymore...

There are many processes done to brass that is just plain old "Metal Working 101" and normal tools work quite well, no
"special" tools needed...
McMaster-Carr

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Old 11-21-2019, 01:59 AM
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I have used both over the years (reamers and swaging dies). Over time I settled on a light reaming with the Lyman hand tool followed by swaging in the RCBS swaging die. Very uniform results and never a problem.

It sounds more difficult and time consuming than it really is. I typically reload handgun ammo in lots of 500 or 1000 and rifle ammo in lots of 100. Doing the primer pockets only has to be done once. I can easily ream a couple hundred cases while watching the evening news, then run them through the swaging die in an hour or so.

Many thousands of GI surplus cases over the past 47 years of reloading, and most of them still in use today.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:22 AM
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I'm a competitive Service Rifle shooter. I decided a couple of years ago that my best use of time and money was to purchase pre-primed Wolf brass, load it and fire it, and then sell it as once-fired for someone to deal with. ;-)
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:25 AM
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I too use a combination of reaming and swaging. I ream them with a Lyman reaming cutter in my RCBS case prep center, then the Dillon super Swage "irons" out any cutter marks. Previously I used the RCBS swaging tool on my single stage press, and that worked fine too.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:05 AM
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Get a Dillon Super swagger-----Problem Solved
Jim
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:28 PM
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I have removed primer crimps from thousands of 556 brass with a simple twist of a case mouth chamfer tool. I've yet to find a reason to buy another tool for this process.


Lee Chamfer Deburring Tool


or if you're fancy...


RCBS Chamfer Deburring Tool 17 to 60 Cal
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Old 01-04-2020, 10:07 PM
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I use a countersink bit in my hand drill. I can take the crimps out in literally a second.
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Old 01-05-2020, 01:14 PM
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+ 1 on the Dillon swager . Virgin Lake City brass is available . If you're loading to 5.56 level , them & milspec primers . I do have some LC & IMI surplus with crimped primers & they'll have to be done when they get shot . In my youth I used to ream them . Had a primer let go in an '06 in a 1903 . Piece hit me in my right cheekbone about 1" below my shooting glasses . Still have the scar . So I swage them now days .
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Old 01-05-2020, 02:38 PM
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For a cheaper option, RCBS makes a kit that screws in like a regular set of dies that will remove crimps. Its a little more involved than say a super swage, but it is a lot cheaper. Depends on the volume of brass you process.

I reuse my crimped military brass several times, so for my needs i've never been able to justify the super swage.
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Old 01-05-2020, 03:09 PM
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Swaging is a better procedure for dealing with the GI crimp than reaming. Reaming works fine if very carefully done; if not, too much brass can be removed. There is no chance of overdoing it with the swaging process.
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Old 01-05-2020, 08:48 PM
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Every few years I get a bucket of 5.56 to replace my 223/5.56 brass. I will reload it 4 to 5 times before I leave it at the range or give to my BIL to cut down for 300BLK. I don't like dealing with the loose pockets and split cases that seem to affect loads past 5 times. I get my 5.56 from a buddy of mine who will buy a bin at military auction, clean it, and sell it on the internet (what he does in retirement).

I machined a die to hold a reamer on a cordless screwdriver and a custom reverse shell holder for use on my RockChucker back when I had access to a machine shop. Part of my new to me brass process after cleaning and sizing/decap is to ream the primer pocket in my RockChucker. The next step is the the sizing die. After my first reload I will clean, size/decap, anneal, and run it through the sizing die again.
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Old 01-06-2020, 06:27 PM
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The advantage of the Dillon swager is--- consistency on every shell and consistency is a must for accuracy and dependability'
Jim
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