For a long time I have loaded 2.8 Grains of Bullseye with a 148 Grain wadcutter slug. This has worked well in all of my revolvers chambered for .38/.357 and my .38 Special Wadcutter auto's (Colt Mid Range & S&W M52).

I was talking with some friends that shoot wadcutter guns also. They are using 2.8 Grains of Winchester 231 for their guns. That got me to thinking as I have a couple of pounds of that also. Then I looked in my Lyman 47th edition Manual and saw where the minimum loading for HP 38 is 2.7 Grains. Has anyone tried these?

Would all three powders meter the same? I have five different powder measures and could set one up for each powder or could I just use one?

Are these Bored Covid Questions?

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Back in my .38 wadcutter days, 3.1 grains of 231 was my standard loading. It dropped very consistently from my Herter's powder dropper.

I would not rely on any two powders to drop the same from the same dropper, much less different droppers. If one wants to dedicate a dropper to drop "X" grains of powder "Y," that's fine.

W231/HP-38 is a good powder for 148 grain wadcutters. You did not say if your bullets are HBWC or solid base, if they are solid base you might want to bump the load up to 3.1-3.3 grains of 231 for hollowbase bullets 2.8-3 grains of 231 is a good choice. You don't want to load them to strong if you are using HBWC's as you can blow the skirt of the bullet off and it can get stuck in the barrel.

I'm just a guy posting on a gun forum, so...

HP-38 and W231 are the same powder. I have to assume they would meter the same in whatever measure you have (allowing for lot-to-lot differences)

You will have no idea what Bullseye will do in comparison until you try it.

This is where I come to the be careful part. If you have been reloading any period of time, complacency can blow your pistol/hand/face up just as easily as ignorance.

Do not assume anything. Do not have more than one powder out at a time (including in the hopper). You need to be 100% sure what powder is in the hopper when you pull the handle. You need to be 100% sure nothing you are doing will result in a mystery mix of powders. You need to be verifying your charge with a scale at the start (minimum) of each run.

38 special 148 wadcutters are one of my favorite loads . . . however . . . they are not loaded for paper punching.

When someone inquires or opines on the subject of 38 wadcutters, the actual purpose of the load often goes unmentioned.

Hard cast 148 wadcutters make great short-barrel revolver defensive loads. 4.7 grains (+/-) of Unique yields 850 FPS from a 1-7/8" snubby. Penetration is awesome and accuracy is more than adequate for a defensive load.

I started using full wadcutters in the 90's with Bullseye powder and fellow shooters said, that's dirty, use Red Dot. Fine with me, I was using Red Dot in shotgun loads at the time. Then they said Red Dot's dirty, use something else. Well guess what, they're all dirty and you gotta clean the gun anyway.
I eventually settled on WST, I use it in my 45 ACP as well and it keeps life simple. I never got any noticeable different accuracy with the different powders. I bought other powders (Bullseye Titegroup, maybe some Red Dot) when handgun powder (especially WST) was scarce and I'll hold those in reserve for when I run out of WST.

Not using these for defensive loads (though I would if that was all I had). These are used for punching paper at the range. My defensive/offensive handguns are in .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .357 Mag or 9 MM(but only if the others are not available).

Like I wrote I have five powder measures and will set at least two of them up for 2.8 Grains of powder. One for Bullseye and one for 231/HP 38 (once I am sure those meter the same).

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I use 2.7 of Bullseye for target loads with the 148 WC. Have done so for decades. I guess I am a creature of habit.

I have been loading 38 Special with 148gr wadcutters for close to 40 years. Before I got my Dillon 550B I loaded everything on my RCBS press and threw my charges with a Hornady Pistol Powder dispenser which used interchangeable bushings. I have NOT used HP38, but have used Bullseye and 231. Based on the bushing chart, the powder charges you are looking at don't occupy the same volume.

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Judge control not gun control!

I am using both hollow based and double ended wadcutter. Kind of a non-partisan loader.

None of my measures use a bushing. They are all adjustable (Lyman 55's and RCBS).

Been loading since 1973, started using a Lyman 310 Tool (still have several) and Lee Powder Spoons (still have them too). The spoons are my fall back when I want to load 50 or so rounds quickly, they work.

Have had a Dillon and got rid of it. Like being able to watch all steps as I do them, not as the machine does four at once. Old fashioned, I guess.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

ANY reloader that does not weigh the result from any form of measure, dispenser, dropper, scoop, etc, is not looking for trouble - he has found it!

Do you weigh each time you drop some powder with a measure?

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Dillon SDB.

When I get started, I weigh the first 10-20 drops. Then I weigh every other for another 20 rounds, then 1 every 5 rounds for 20. If I've been consistent to that point, I will weigh one every 15-20 rounds.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

Some of us check the weight of every charge for every round. . . . .really like consistency. . . .and no surprises.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I check my powder bushing on my progressives when I refill the powder hooper or change lot numbers for the powder. I have a light beam focused on the charged case to confirm that the charge level at least looks consistent.

Bob

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Sag Harbor & Manhattan, N.Y.

To each their own...............

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Nope.

I do check the first few throws to see what it is really doing as opposed to what it is claimed to do. Then, every so-often it is checked again during the process.

One thing I NEVER do is make an adjustment, install a different rotor, etc, without a verification of what is actually being put into the empty case.

When using my powder measure I check the initial few drops, then whenever the mood strikes after that.

I sometimes use Lee spoons. These I have found are consistent if you do the same thing each and every time. Been using these off and on for 57 years and have not blown myself (or anyone else up yet).

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I've tried the standard 148 gn DEWC, 2.7 gn Bullseye load and every possible variation from 2.7-3.2 gns of Bullseye. For some reason 3.0 gns works best for me, maybe it's because I do not seat the projectiles flush. I use a light crimp at the crimp groove. Or maybe it's all in my head. I think shooting is 30% mental anyway.

2.8 grains of Bullseye shot well enough for me when I crimped as you do. Now that I am using a M52 I set them flush. Not all guns will shoot the same loading as well as another of the same make and model. Just find what shoots best in yours and load that.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I load them pretty darn long for my rifle and they shoot good like that.

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To each their own............

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I load both the 148 gr HB & BB style lead bullets in my 2 - 6" 38/357 revolvers.

Started way back with a M19-5 with the Speer #4618 HB seated from
1.16" out to 1.25" with powders from Bullseye up to SR4756.

FPS went from 550 fps with Trail Boss , up to 775 fps with Red Dot powder, for this soft lead HBwc bullet.

In my J frame 2" I have loaded the BBwc bullet with light loads of Trail Boss at 644 fps and Green Dot at 628 fps for my light loads and worked
a full 38 special load of Bullseye up to 757 fps and Green Dot to 740 fps.

A hotter load of Bullseye and... w231 reached the +P zone but the recoil was very heavy and there was no improvement at all in the accuracy department, so these loads will never be used again.

OAL of the BBwc bullet was at 1.25" for this style of bullet, since a seating length of 1.16" did not improve accuracy, in my snub nose test.

What is a MINIMUM load? All my manuals show are START loads. You can go lower easily, as long as bullet doesn't stick in barrel (and you need less than 1.0gn of powder to even come close to that situation).
Usually, you want loads that range from 650-725fps.

In Post#7, I stated these were target loads, not defensive loads. So velocity is not an issue, just accuracy.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

3.1grs W231 is the classic W 231 HBWC load , like the 2.7grs Bullseye . Out of 3 38 special wadcutter guns they all like different loads with a148 HBWC for best accuracy @ 50yds . M52 likes 3.1 - 3.2 W231 , S&W PPC likes 2.9grs Bullseye & Colt OMM likes 2.9 WST . Std SP primer , just about any of the faster pistol powders will produce usable loads . HBWC around 700fps , cast around 800 . For autos you have to load for function & a revolver you can go softer if accuracy is there .

I’m fairly new to reloading compared to most of you gentleman. I usually verify with a digital and beam scale when I make any changes, make sure I get 5 consistent loads before loading anything. Then I check and verify every 5 rounds.

But I’m never very speedy. I do most of my reloading in the summer months when it’s 115 outside and most of my shooting in the winter when it’s 65

I had some wad cutters several years old that didn't shoot as good as a bullseye load in my guns so I brought them to the range to burn up. They came to life in my friends 19-4 nickel 6'' on the bench. Seated flush with a very slight roll crimp. These were loaded on a 550b

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It is amazing, what can happen when you.........

glue on another 4" of barrel to a weapon, then you go to the range and shoot the same ammo........

or add on one of those "Red Dot" thingy's.

I think I'm the odd man out here. The HBWC shoot well with the light charges of fast powder, but the commercially hard cast button nose wadcutters never did. I had to bump the load up considerably....like 4.0 gr of W231. Then they would shoot as good as anything I've ever run into but that's not a light load.

the commercially hard cast button nose wadcutters never did. I had to bump the load up considerably....like 4.0 gr of W231. Then they would shoot as good as anything I've ever run into but that's not a light load.[/QUOTE]

A BNWC hard cast doesn't mind a little speed. That is my favorite 38 paper puncher.

Cast you want to push them harder . With W231 , 3.1-3.2grs with HBWC , 3.5grs with cast FBWC , DEWC or BNWC .

(See post #21)
I load them seated out that long so that they cycle through the action of the rifle. If seated normal they don't feed through the mag. Seated long, they feed and they are accurate. That's a good thing about rolling your own. You can Taylor your loads to your gun.

The NRA Handloading manual had an extensive and exhaustive article on 38 Target loads. They came down solid on 2.7 grains of Bullseye. They opined that heavier loads increased the group size. Also compared different types of wc's. Anyhow, based on that I load 2.7 grains of Bullseye with my home cast 150 grain wc's. And they are more accurate than I am, for sure!

Max,
I have two pistols that shoot wadcutters. One is a Colt M1911 platform and the other is a S&W 52. I load my rounds to fit in the S&W 52 as it is the most finicky. Those have to be seated slightly below the rim of the case to function in my mags. The Colt is like Mikey it will eat anything just like the revolvers.

Do you use only wadcutters in your rifle? Have a friend that has a rolling block, a lever rifle and a bolt action in .38/,357. He uses almost every kind of slug you can imagine.

AJ

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

In most manuals they have a starting load , up to a maximum load or even a +P load in some.
In my 686 6" a starting load of Bullseye with a 148 HBwc gets around 710 fps.
That same load out of my J frame snub nose gets 628 fps.....

but I can get the same bullet to go just 580 fps with Trail Boss.

This is a starting load but do to the low FPS, can it be called a reduced load or a minimum load ?
In the J frame, this bullet has gotten down to 545 fps and still exited the barrel, which I would call a minimum velocity load but maybe not a safe minimum load and I would never try to see if it would clear a long 6" barrel.

With revolvers, one can really put the brakes on a bullet, for light target loads below a Factory starting target load and not get a squib but when being used in a pistol, there needs to be enough energy to work the slide and eject, which is another ball game.

I call a minimum load, one that is below a starting load but is still safe and gets good accuracy from a certain weapon that it was developed for.

I have a 150 gr FMJ target load for my 30-06 @ 2465 fps and a
180 gr "Meat saver" hunting load that starts out at 2406 fps.
These to me are a Minimum load.

The NRA load of 2.7 gr Bullseye and my home cast Lee .358" 150 grain wc's averages 734 fps out of my 4" S&W Model 67. I lightly crimp them at the crimp groove.

One final note with lead in a .357 Magnum revolver.

All my light target loads are with a 38 special case.

The only lead bullet that my long .357 cases see is the 158 gr Lwc design, or heavier, for target or hunting.

I don't think my 686 has ever seen a 148 lead bullet ?

Tell him I'm jealous. A bolt action 357!
I limit myself to the molds I have. The Rossi doesn't care for 170 grain swc's. It likes 148 grain WC's, but those start to yaw at 100 yards, even though they still stay on target.
The rifle really likes Lee's 124 grain TCTL bullet, meant for the 9mm. I shoot them unsized, lubed with 50/50 LLA/Johnson's paste wax. With those I can hit our 200 yard gong probably 80% of the time. It could do better with better sights.
It also likes 95 grain RN and FP bullets, meant for the 380. Those also get shot unsized and tumble lubed.
All with Unique.

Of course not.
Calibration is a means to verify consistency and accuracy.


The frequency of needed periodic calibration is determined by the results of the individual calibrations.

A comparison between a device under test and an established standard. When the calibration is finished, it should be possible to state the estimated time offset and/or frequency offset of the device under test with respect to the standard, as well as the measurement uncertainty. Calibrations can be absolute or relative. Absolute calibrations are not biased by the calibration reference and would, therefore, be more reproducible. However, absolute calibrations can be more complex to determine. The bias in relative calibrations would be consistent if all the devices in the system are calibrated against the same calibration reference. Calibrations may also be performed relative to other devices without reference to an absolute standard. Relative calibrations are generally simpler to perform than absolute calibrations.

And so it goes . . .

Oh, by the way, do you measure the actual volume of your booze bottles every time you buy one, or do you merely chug them down indiscriminately?

Yes, I weigh each charge. It’s surprisingly fast. Doing it this way every so often you get a lite charge. But it’s easy to catch dropping into the scale.

Nope - only now and then. The only time I weigh every charge is with 25 ACP. Loads for those lil buggers are so small I don't have good luck with consistency.

PS: Sorry for the long delay. I was banned (again) this time it was 60 days! Seems that the older I get the more times I "trigger" folks . . .


Oooops - it's been so long, I have forgotten that I already replied . . .