PPC Loadings?

AJ

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I am loading 148 grain HBWC's with 28 grains of Bullseye for my S&W 52. I also shoot a what I think started life and a Pre-14 and was rebuilt into a PPC Revolver by A.F. Behlert. I want to save the HBWC's for the 52. I am thinking of using DEWC's for the PPC revolver. Was thinking of using the 2.8 grain loading of Bullseye. Is anyone else using this loading? The PPC revolver has a 6 inch barrel.
 
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From a pure reloading (vs. competition) standpoint IMHO the DEWCs should prove as adequate: can't really anticipate that the 6" barrel would cause any problems over a shorter one...?

Only one way to make that determination for sure: load some up! Make sure you get a hole in the target for every BANG! and see how they group. You can always add more powder and not have to worry about the skirt deteriorating as it might with the HBWC.

Cheers!
 
The 2.8 gr. of Bullseye with a 148 gr. wadcutter, either hollow base or double ended, has been THE .38 target load from when it was first made, until now. These don't work very well in factory barreled S&W revolvers because of the slow (1 in 18-3/4 twist) barrels. That's why all the PPC revolvers were rebarreled, mostly with 1 in 10 or 1 in 14 twist. The tighter twist keeps the bullet above the minimum RPM out to 50 yards.
 
Might have to push them faster than HBWCs , but with usual powders should find an accurate load . Size to cyl throats . If BE don;t work W231 & WST are worth a look .
 
I will load up some 148 Grain cast DEWC's with 2.8 Grains of Bullseye and try them at the range on Friday. Would like to be able to use the same powder measure for both the 52 and the PPC revolver.
 
With all the stuff that you have, you might try the BBwc 148 gr. bullets with.....
2.8 grs of Green Dot or 2.7 grs of Trail Boss.

Out of my snub nose J frame, these X-lite loads, were my best target loads.

Bullseye at 3.3 grs was getting into the "Hang on" area of recoil, for this
light weight revolver.

No problems with recoil if you are shooting a larger K frame.
 
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With all the stuff that you have, you might try the BBwc 148 gr. bullets with.....
2.8 grs of Green Dot or 2.7 grs of Trail Boss.

Out of my snub nose J frame, these X-lite loads, were my best target loads.

Bullseye at 3.3 grs was getting into the "Hang on" area of recoil, for this
light weight revolver.

No problems with recoil if you are shooting a larger K frame.

This is a target I shot with my PPC revolver last March. IIRC these were HBWC's. Have a few thousand HBWC's that I want to save for my 52. If I can get the DEWC's to preform near as well then I will be happy....ecstatic, in fact! The old beat up looking revolver is my PPC, it looked loke that when I bought it. One of the best buys that I have ever made.
 

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As PPC matches are shot at distances up to 50 yards, that is where I'd test my ammo/gun combo. If you have access to a machine rest, that would be my preferred way to test. The bullet, especially the base, is very important when working up an accurate load. With a quality bullet, a good powder charge and that nice revolver, you should be able to get them to group in the X ring.
 
Really depends on what distance you'll do most of your shooting at. +/- 2 1/2" groups @ 50yds used to be the gold standard.

It really comes down to how well your revolver responds to the cast/hard cast bullets you're using. It's not uncommon to bump up loads .2gr's when using cast bullets compared to the soft pure lead swaged bullets.

Then there's the consideration of how fast you need to reload the revolver. Some prefer a nosed bullet for speed loading, others use flush wc's/hbwc's. For general range play it really doesn't matter.

Hopefully everything works out for you with the simple bullet swap/same powder. If it doesn't bumping the powder up is your next option. I've bought swaged lead bullets in the past along with swaging my own bullets. I've also casted bullets for decades using 8/9bhn alloy. The 2 main bullets I cast were the lyman 358311 158gr rn bullet and the H&G #50 148gr button nosed wc.

I typically had to use .2gr more of bullseye or AA452 when using my cast bullets compared to any of the swaged bullets.
Bullseye powder 158gr rn bullets 3.1gr swaged 3.3gr cast
AA452 powder 148gr hbwc/wc 2.9gr swaged 3.1gr cast

Used to only own 1 set of dies for the 38spl/357's. Took awhile but I saw the light and bought multiple seating/crimping dies and gunshows (+/- $5 apiece). That way I had dies setup for specific loads and other dies for testing different bullets.

My ppc revolver built from a model 10 frame. If you look at the rear of the revolver your pre-14 will have a slot for a rear sight. My frame has a rounded groove/iron sight setup.
awPGBBb.jpg


If you decide to test other bullets for your ppc revolver a type III wc is always a good choice. Cramer #19 and the heavy version of the lyman 358432 are excellent choices. They have a tapered nose that aids when using speed loaders but still maintain hbwc/wc accuracy.

Myself I switched over to a 357 and simply play around on the ranges.
TqNbjbt.jpg


Old habbits are hard to break, I still use 3.3gr's of bullseye and a 158gr cast bullet in the 38spl cases. A lot of people don't know it but 3.5gr of international clays and a 158gr cast bullets is another load that has served me will in several 38spl/357 revolvers over the decades.
AL4WBux.jpg


The bullet used to shoot those groups pictured above is a 158gr rnfp hp bullet that has 2 crimp grooves. I seat the bullet long (crimp in the bottom crimp groove) when using them in the 38spl cases. If I take the hp pins out of the mold and put solid nosed pins in the mols casts a 170gr rnfn bullet.
fjXhK9L.jpg


Target looks like junk, was shooting it for my own amusement. Playing around on the 50yd line using that same (640 series) bullet pictured above. I also used another 158gr rnfp hp bullet that I cast, an old cramer bullet designed for the 357 called the hunter.

These are 6-shot groups @ 50yds testing 5.5gr of bullseye (left upper/lower targets) and 6.0gr of bullseye (right upper/lower targets). The hunter bullet was used for the top left & right targets. The mihec 640 series was the bottom left and right targets.
CfpwHXk.jpg


Really didn't matter the load or the bullet, all 4 test loads held 2 1/4" or less. (putting out there 5.5gr to 6.0gr of bullseye and a +/- 160gr lead bullet in 357mag cases is worth trying).

Enjoy that fine ppc revolver & hopefully you do testing with different bullets besides a dewc.
 
38 special accuracy secrete Lyman 358432 160 grain .
Lyman discontinued this mould but NOE recreated and improved it .
NOE 360 - 160 - WC PB (360432) Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

Not a whole lot of people know how accurate this bullet is ...I have over 30 moulds for 38 Special , I shot in competition and tested every design I could get my hands on for accuracy . This design in 160 gr. wins them allfor cast bullets . The all time paper target accuracy champ is still the commerical HBWC but this design comes close and you can cast them yourself and with a solid base , can be driven to +P velocities .
That flat nose and full caliber front driving band hits hard and the slight rounded edges help with a fast reload .
If you ever get a chance to try these ...Do It !
Gary
I'm sorry I don't have a photo but I'm old and computer / camera illiterate ...
 
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38 special accuracy secrete Lyman 358432 160 grain .
Lyman discontinued this mould but NOE recreated and improved it .
NOE 360 - 160 - WC PB (360432) Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

Not a whole lot of people know how accurate this bullet is ...I have over 30 moulds for 38 Special , I shot in competition and tested every design I could get my hands on for accuracy . This design in 160 gr. wins them allfor cast bullets . The all time paper target accuracy champ is still the commerical HBWC but this design comes close and you can cast them yourself and with a solid base , can be driven to +P velocities .
That flat nose and full caliber front driving band hits hard and the slight rounded edges help with a fast reload .
If you ever get a chance to try these ...Do It !
Gary
I'm sorry I don't have a photo but I'm old and computer / camera illiterate ...

But will it work with 2.8 grains of Bullseye. That is the point of this thread.
 
Check your twist rate. As mentioned is should be between 1-10 and 1-12 with a ppc bbl. The factory 14's need about 3 gr BE to reach their potential IME.
 
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We used to shoot the 2.8 of BE out of PPC guns and M52 both with excellent results. If you want to save your hb wadcutters for the M52, I have been getting under 2 inch groups at 50 yd with Bayou Bullets 138 gr. wadcutters in the PPC revo. They are polymer coated and work well in my guns.
 
I am loading 148 grain HBWC's with 28 grains of Bullseye for my S&W 52. I also shoot a what I think started life and a Pre-14 and was rebuilt into a PPC Revolver by A.F. Behlert. I want to save the HBWC's for the 52. I am thinking of using DEWC's for the PPC revolver. Was thinking of using the 2.8 grain loading of Bullseye. Is anyone else using this loading? The PPC revolver has a 6 inch barrel.
28 grains of bullseye should make you popular at the shooting line :)
 
Brings back found memories. Seems to me 2.7 of Bullseye was the standard when I started shooting PPC way back than went to 3.1 grains of W231. Maybe changed because it feed through the powder measure better? Always with 148 HBWC's, Precision in a can as I recall and eventually Remington's.

938
 
But will it work with 2.8 grains of Bullseye. That is the point of this thread.

Yes Sir , 2.8 grs. will be just fine .
Our indoor shooting range is 75 feet ( 25 yards) so for NRA Bullseye competition at this short range at paper target ... I use 2.7 grains ... won several trophies with this load .
But 2.8 grains ... might be even more accurate and should be just about perfect for PPC revolver .

I have a model 64 S&W set up for accuracy testing w/ red dot sight . With the NOE 360-160-WC (360432) , sized to .3585" and 2.7 grs Bullseye , at 25 yards , a 10 shot group goes into a 1 1/2 " ragged hole ...if I do my part ... and I'm not the best shot ...only mediocre so-so at best .
I've only shot this load/gun in Indoor Bullseye matches at 25 yards .
Gary
 
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For those who don't have the mould or don't cast , Matt's Bullets sells the LY 358432 both light 150gr & heavy 160gr very reasonably . Also has the H&G 244 ( for the S&W 52 ) DEWC & 165gr H&G 37 FBWC .
 
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