I recently mentioned to another member at the range about not being able to find any large pistol primers. Seems everyone is out of stock. Anyway he said he was using large rifle primers instead of the pistol primers. I'm a firm believer when reloading to use whatever my Lymans manual says, no substitutions. These days with so much supply problems I'm beginning to doubt that belief if I want to keep shooting my .45ACP. Anyone ever done this or is it even wise to do?

Large rifle primers are a little taller than large pistol primers, enough to make a big and potentially dangerous condition in some cases if the primer can't be seated at least flush with or slightly below the case head. Might work in some cases, but I wouldn't do it.

It's a different situation with small pistol and small rifles primers, where a small rifle primer can usually be substituted for a small pistol primer if the load has been worked up with the rifle primer and the handgun's springs haven't been tampered with.

Primer cup thickness to contain higher pressure.

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S&W Accumulator

There is a right way, and a wrong way.

There is an easy way, and a hard way.

There is a cheep way, and an expensive way.

"I did it for years and there was no problem" is not what I personally want to hear.

My favorite saying, from my favorite actor is: "Are ya feelin lucky? Well, are ya punk?"

LR primers are a bit thicker than LP primers, and cannot be seated flush with the base due to the shallower primer pocket. Enough that a revolver's cylinder or a semiauto slide may not be able to close completely. Otherwise it would be OK. Some of the big magnum handgun cartridge cases are purposely designed to accept and use LR primers, as they have slightly deeper primer pockets.
SR and SP primers can be considered as being interchangeable in handguns - so long as there is enough firing pin impact energy to reliably fire SR primers.

Kinda what I thought, not a good idea but thought I'd ask here. Thanks everyone.

They’ve explained it pretty well about primer thickness. It is possible to go the other way if you are using low pressure loads in a rifle; in fact some folks shooting Black Powder Cartridges (like 45-70 etc) did it because they thought the LRPs were too hot.
When it comes to large primers though, if at all possible I like to use rifle primers in rifles and pistol primers in pistols. That’s not OCD, it’s just basic reloading safety.

Froggie

Yeah, tell your friend he is incorrect to think he should do that. Like said above, it can be done with SPP and SRP but not with LPP and LRP.

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SWCA #3437

Below is an older chart listing primer dimensions. Only a few manufacturers, but the basic differences are there.

As for me, I don't see LR being a viable option.

Attached Images

Primer Charts jpg.jpg (107.3 KB, 423 views)

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

Small pistol and small rifle can be interchanged, but there is just enough difference in cup height between large pistol and large rifle to create an issue.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

+1.... I've been testing this and it's correct... :-)

J.

Just to finish up, SAAMI primer cup height specs are:

Large Pistol: 0.115-0.126"
Large Rifle: 0.123-0.136"

THEORETICALLY, a minimum LR primer could be shorter than a maximum LP primer and still be within the SAAMI dimensional tolerance specs. But a LP primer will be, on average around 0.009" shorter than a LR primer.

SAAMI tolerance specs for the depth of a LP primer pocket is 0.117-0.123" and for a LR primer pocket it is 0.125-0.132"

As I mentioned earlier, I didn't think it was right but did not have a real reason why but now I do. Thanks eveyone.

BTW Wouldn't you know right after I posted my question I found a supplier with large pistol primers in stock. I ordered a few thousand.

Large rifle primers are a lot harder to come by than large pistol primers. I see occasional links to online primers for sale if you want to pay the prices, but you just never see large rifle primers for sale online.

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Where we go one, we go all

I hope that's good information. I'm down to one package of a thousand CCI large pistol primers but have plenty of Federal large rifle primers. I'd like to swap even for a carton of 5,000 US-made large pistol primers at an upcoming gun show.

My shortage is SP primers, but I have lots of SR primers which is what I normally use for most of my handgun loads. I have several thousand 209 primers but I very seldom load shotshells these days.

What about using Large Pistol primers for Large Rifle loads?
Have read the LPP cup material is too thin to contain rifle pressure loads.
Is that true?
Was thinking about using some LP primers in some .30/30 rifle loads.

I'm not short of large rifle primers, so I wouldn't do it, but for light cast bullet loads, it would probably be safe. Some cast bullet shooters have done this for years without mishap, but they load mild.

You might be taking a chance, however, with even moderate loads. Aside from a potentially dangerous situation (for the shooter) where a primer is pierced and gas escapes, the gas can etch (pit) a bolt face and damage it.

Gun Broker prices are still cheaper than firearm damage/personal injury ... just sayin'

I've used large pistol primers in 444 Marlin caliber brass but the pressure is not near what it is with other rifle cartridges. You have to use your head and know what you're doing.

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Where we go one, we go all

IMO not a good idea. First, the primer cup it too thin. Next, the primer might not be "hot" enough to properly ignite the rifle powder. Third, the primer will seat well below flush to the case and the firing pin might not work as well as the the correct primer.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter.

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SWCA #3437

I've been using CCI 400 SRPs in my 9mm loads for quite some time now and they work great. CCI CS rep advised me it was perfectly Ok to substitute them for pistol primers and he was right.

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Vietnam Vet 6/66-12/67

That may be true but we are not discussing small primers, we are discussing large primers which is a different story all together.

We are also replying to the question of using LPP in a rifle ammo application. Again different than using a rifle primer as a pistol primer.

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SWCA #3437

I have used LPP in milder cast bullet rifle caliber loads. I would hesitate to use them for full power rifle loads. Keep in mind LPPs work OK for high pressure .44 Mag loads.

As we all know any time you go out side of what the manual says you are on your own and potentially asking for trouble.
As was said, 45-70 shooters like pistol primer in their loads, and since its a low pressure loading, no problems come of it.

Several years ago, I was short on Large rifle primers during an earlier shortage. We were shooting a lot of reduced loads in lever guns.
I got by shooting LP primers in my reduced cast lead loads in a 35 Remington and 30-30. These were shot in Marlin 336 lever guns.
No problems, what so ever, as the loads were reduced and loaded with 12 gs of Unique, pressures under 25,000.

However, I tried the same thing in an 1891 Mauser in 7.65 Argentine, and the primer was pierced. This was with the same 12 grs of Unique, a proven load, that I had used a lot, and right out of the Lyman loading manual....
All except for the LP primers that is.
I got a face full of gas, but otherwise the gun and I were unharmed.
The heavier spring, and probably slightly longer protrusion on the firing pin was too much for the thinner cup of the Pistol primer.

That was the end of that, and I will stick with what the manual says from now on.

I wish we were where we could exchange our primers. I have all the LPP that I need, and would swap you for LRP's that I could use.
Good luck with your swap at a gun show. You never can tell, when some one like me would be in need of what you have.

Primers

https://lohmanarms.com/product/magte...rs-1000-count/

Keep in mind, the max pressure for the 44 Magnum should be 36,000 psi while most rifle cartridges have a max pressure of between 51,000 psi to over 60,000 psi. Of course there are exceptions but in most cases LPP should not be used in rifle cartridges for that reason and the ones I mentioned in a previous post.

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SWCA #3437

Yes I know they now make cases that use small pistol primers so you'll need to look at the case. In a pinch you could also cut down your own cases from any of a dozen rifle calibers that use that same case head.

Biggest issue is any protrusion. The primer must not stick out beyond the base of the cartridge. You do own a primer pocket tool don't you? Takes about what, 3 wrist twists in that pocket to clean it out and 'mill' it flat?

Other opportunities exist for substitution. Look at the parent case and whether the dimensions are still the same.

There are slight differences between primer groups for sure, I'm just tired of hearing people repeat safety information written by some lawyer like it's gospel. If that lawyers opinion is more important to you than having ammo then wait until you can buy what they specify. Don't use your gray matter or read a book written before the internet.

I loaded several hundred 45acp with LRP...........All went bag in my Svenson.

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S&W Accumulator

I was going through my inventory and came upon these Sellier and Bellot lpp......but wait read the line just under "PRIMERS";
for rifle, pistol and revolver. I have not liked these primers because they are noticeably harder to prime 45 ACP cases. Just for curiosty's sake, I primed a 1x fired 6.5 Creedmoor case. Felt like other large rifle primers going in. It does seat a bit below flush, but shooting just the primed case in my rifle, it goes bang. Just throwing this out there for thoughts and comment.....

I have had FTF in some of my rifles when using LPP instead of LRP. Obvious light strikes due to the lower primer height. These were light 50-70 and 45-70 loads used in my older SS rifles that have the original large dia. firing pins. I suspect that they came from a box of older LRP bought at a gun show.
Have had no problem with using SPP instead of SRP with any of my handgun cartridges. I have even seen some older small primer boxes marked for use with rifle or pistol. And in some reloading manuals, some hand gun cartridges list the use of SRP with some loads. The 32-20 loads come to mind. When substituting SRP for SPP the rule of thumb is to never load to max.
Don't know if rifle primers are more powerful than pistol primers, or if it is just the matter of a longer burn time, and we'd be talking milliseconds here.
I do know from use that I get better accuracy when using LR magnum primers with reduced smokeless loads in my old, large BP cases like the 45-70 where the charge fills but a small portion of the case. I prefer not to use over powder wads to fill up the case.

John

I was fooled by this on S&B primers as well, which did cause me to unwittingly use thousands of small pistol primers for small rifle applications. I was fine, but a buddy ran some through his AR and had a couple pierced primers. I still use them in my M1 carbine loads... or I would if I could find more!
If you go to the S&B website, you will see that they do have different part numbers for pistol and rifle primers, the box just reads like they might be the same. In fact, on the ones I had it was only clear if you read the end panel on the brick, the sleeves of 100 had no difference. Cheaper to design and print just one box style.
So, no, they aren't large rifle primers. Depending on your load and the shape and velocity of your firing pin/striker, they may or may not work as large rifle in your application. I would recommend against it.
The S&B I've used have been outstanding primers and *very* consistent. I'd buy them again if I saw them for sale. Heck, I'd even pay more than the $22/1000 than I bought the last batch for!

Has anyone done business with this outfit?
I know there are a TON of scam ammo/component sites these days. Up until now they have pretty much all required payment through Zelle or other non-typical means and that has been the tell. This site does seem to take a credit card, but there are enough typos and odd text that I'm more than a bit wary.
They do list a physical address but no phone number, another red flag.

I love those S&B Large Pistol primers in 44 Magnum with N110. S&B were the only primers we could get in Canada for a while after COVID started. Now you can't even get those; I'm assuming they're staying in Europe with everything going on in Ukraine.