Picked up a 7.5” srh yesterday, couldn’t pass it up.

Anyway, I have 20 pieces of once fired hornady brass. Have 500 starlines ordered.

I’m looking for a 1200-1400fps load to use up the 250gr xtps I have. I have 300gr mags for use in heavy duty 454 and 460 loads. Once the xtps are gone, I’m going to try 300+ grain gc hard cast for this velocity range.

I’ve scoured and other than Freedom Arms data, not much in the way of data. I’m thinking unique, hp38, and maybe cfe pistol. I have bullseye as well, but I’m not willing to risk it. And 2400 downloaded is just filthy, not a fan.

Anyway, does 11-14gr unique, 11-13.2gr hp38 sound unreasonable? This is in Casull brass, don’t have 45 colt brass.

Hodgdon's reloading site doesn't list ANY date for HP-38/W231. Way too mild of powder

Hornady 9th edition put 240XTP with 2400, minimun load 30.0 gr @1600fps!

Lyman 49th edition puts Lyman 452651 (linotype alloy) W/GC sized .451"

Primer: CCI Small Rifle Mag. 450

2400 19.8@1188-22,0 @ 1316
Unique 11.3@1176- 12,6 @1181
W296 [email protected]@1338
4227 [email protected]@1345

The 4227 26.5@1345fps is compressed AND the most accurate in Lyman's test 6" Universal Receiver

For the slow jacketed velocities you should try 45 COLT loadings.

Ivan

You may or may not get the XTP velocities you're looking for using a compressed charged of FFFg Black Powder!

from freedom arms website

https://freedomarms.com/wp-content/u...ading-Data.pdf

A simple Google search for the data should work.

Stick with h110,imr 4227 or 2400 others will erode your forcing cone faster besides they will be most accurate with a heavy crimp

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H110, 4227, 2400, and No. 9 are all good for hotter loads. Unique, Universal, and Power Pistol ( my favorite) work well for midrange loads. I would stay away from Win231 / HP38 in that big case unless you want to make some light loads.

Don't use 45 colt brass in your 454 cylinder it will damage your cylinder and viod warranty if you have one just a heads up if you weren't aware ?

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you will not void rugers warranty using 45 colt ammo in your gun, but if you don't thoroughly clean your chambers after shooting 45 colt ammo you can experience extraction problems and the crud ring will raise pressures as the longer 454 round expands to release the bullet.

All I can find is either anemic Trailboss loads or Tyrannosaurus class hunting loads. FA website has been the one hit so far. And it falls in line with sane thinking, I’ll come up with a stiff load as well, but I don’t want beat to death all the time. I’m figuring moderate 454 in terms of recoil equates to heavy 44 recoil, which doesn’t bother me in the srh, it’s far more comfortable to me than the 629 with heavy loads.


I figured more moderate loads would exist than what does given how rough the recoil is in this cartridge. Granted, it was meant for dangerous game hunting, but still, ought to be something. 357,41, and 44 all have something, why not this? Is it not just a 45 colt magnum?

I will say that moderate velocity with 454 means redefining moderate velocity somewhat given how fast the heavy hitters fly vs the 357,41, and 44.

Why in the world would you say that? It is flat out not true. If you actually read the manual, it explicitly says that 45 Colt can be fired in the 454. Yes, you do have to clean the chambers, but so what?

Why because I personally know the head gunsmith there for about 25 or so years and that's what he says call the factory if you don't believe me ?

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The OP mentions a Ruger Super Redhawk. I believe you’re referring to Freedom Arms when you talk about voided warranties.

The February 2022 issue of Handloader magazine has a Pet Loads article by Brian Pearce on the 454. Several recipes in the mid-range loadings.

Dan

I'm so glad I didn't post earlier... 231/HP38 really are not true Magnum powders.

Try Longshot or True Blue load data for the less powerful types, 296/H110 for full bore.

Don't ignore the 45 Colt "Ruger, etc., Only" load data, either...

Cheers!

P.S. No, shooting 45 Colts won't void a Ruger Warranty.

Hp38 is not a magnum powder at all, but it works for reduced loads. It really is for anemic to entry level moderate loads, I guess unique is the better choice here. And that’s what I’ll load this afternoon.

I’ll look at top end 45+p loads, see if anything perks my interest.

Reduced velocity in 454 casull is still magnum velocity by normal standards.

I’m not buying 45 colt brass, I tried that idea with 38 and 44 special, found I could do the same thing with magnum brass and thinned the brass stock out. I bet I’ll find the same thing here, a compromise of some sorts. I made peace with the fact this is gonna kick, part of life with a big cartridge.

Interestingly, at our range they prohibit the use of Magnum pistol cartridges in the indoor range, so naturally I've loaded up my 38 & 44 Specials for that venue...

Being the absolute stickler for rules that I've become...

Cheers!

P.S. Nothing wrong with using 454 Casull brass exclusively (when you can find any!)...

Wonder if you could shoot Linebaugh, Wyoming Express, or JRH there? It doesn’t say magnum,lol. But, you have to play by the rules

The range I go to is outdoor, only rule is no 50bmg. Biggest pest is having to run deer and turkeys off, who’d ever thought that’s the safest place to be a game animal.

Anyway, the scale is warming up, time to get loading.

I've got a Ruger Super Red Hawk Alaskan and the barrel is stamped .454 Casull - .45 Colt, so there's obviously no concern about voiding the warranty or danger with firing .45 Colt in this gun.

I've loaded lots of reduced loads for this gun in .454 Casull brass using data from the Speer Manual (True Blue powder) and the Freedom Arms website (linked in Post #3 above). Freedom Arms gives data using Bullseye, Unique, and HP-38 for loads in the 850-1200 ft/sec range. These are very pleasant to shoot.

No, I don't belive you. I have the exact Ruger Super Redhawk that the OP has. Ruger's manual for the SRH explicitly says you can shoot 45 Colt in it. Try reading it. The cylinder for the SRH 454 is made from Carpeter Steel and proof tested to 92,000 psi without a scratch on it. No way a 45 colt would put a dent in that. I have no idea what other manufacturers say, but we are not talking about other manufacturers, we are talking about a Ruger SRH 454. Remember, reading is fundamental. I hate it when people push false info out, especially to those who are new to reloading.

Carpenter steel (stupid auto correct)

Personally I prefer Power Pistol for many of my reduced loads in magnum size cases as is not position sensitive but Handloader also listed CFE Pistol, among others.

Here's an excerpt from Handloader.

For the Hornady 250 XTP they only listed A5, True Blue & Longshot.

From:
Pet Loads 454 Casull, Handloading for Utility - Handloader #330

Freedom Arms Model 83 with a 7.5-inch barrel

250 Nosler Sporting JHP
COAL: 1.705"

Power Pistol
-grs-----mv--
13.0 @ 1,211
14.0 @ 1,286
15.0 @ 1,375 - max

CFE PISTOL
-grs------mv--
12.5 @ 1,186
13.0 @ 1,210 - max

.

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Waiting for the break of day

No problem if you dont call the factory ask for bob or johnny they will tell you the same thing !

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I read the original post looks like hes referring to a freedom arms 454 and I'm not new to reloading I bought my freedom arms 454 in 1987 that's why I started reloading it was 50 bucks fo 50 rounds back then so I'm very familiar with loading this round I probably have shot 5-6k rounds and had to replace my barrel once.

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Original post: “Picked up a 7.5” SRH

That ain’t a Freedom Arms. It’s a Ruger Super Redhawk. Yes, FA says not to use 45 Colt brass in 454 cylinders. You need to buy a spare cylinder from them.

Dan

Mis-reading happens on occasion to many of us.
Best to read aloud and load at a slow pace to prevent Kabooms and other reloading errors.

__________________
Have Fun/Stay Safe

Didnt catch the srh my bad and apologies with all the chatter about freedom arms I thought he was referring to a freedom gun goes to show us older folk dont know what all these abbreviations stand for !!

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Is this dano L ?

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Yes it’s a super red hawk. Freedom Arms is a data source.

Anyway, I loaded 12.8gr unique, 250gr Xtp, cci 400 primer, hornady brass last night. Don’t just copy this recipe, check the books and trusted sources.

Tried it out today and accuracy was ok, no paper, but 12oz can at 50yds every time. So there’s hope, my goal is a golf ball at 50yds every time for a 6”+ long revolver, nothing I have has let me down yet.

Recoil was mild for me, obviously don’t hand it to an inexperienced person, but someone used to magnums can shoot this all day and have fun. Empty cases fell out. And I suspect I had good pressure because I didn’t have the filthy gun unique gives you.

I had two leftover hornady 240gr Xtp mag factory rounds. Those bucked pretty good, and were closer to what I’ve read about 454 recoil. Didn’t come near my face at all, but it twisted in my hands and brought my arms up a little. Those two cases were a little sticky in the cylinder.

So far, I’m digging it. Hope I feel the same once I get to the 300+ grain stuff.

Nope! PM sent.

Dan

Sorry again for my misreading but I still stand by my comment I would not shoot 45 colt out of my 454 cylinder no matter what gun it is but do as you wish your gun !!

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I done some reading around and I can see what FA is getting at. And I can get behind it.

The crud ring from using shorter brass and that generates higher pressure due to the case mouth can’t expand fully, and cylinder etching from moisture mixed in and under the crud ring making for sticky extraction.

The 454 operates at higher pressure than regular magnums so a multi piece cylinder could be in your future. Just the same as with 357 and 44 going from enough anemic loads in special brass to form a big crud ring to prehistoric class loads in magnum brass.

What I take from that is people in general don’t clean good enough and FA doesn’t want someone injured or worse. And yes, before this is said, they are a business and want you to buy their products, how else do you stay in business.

Loaded a few more this evening.

Can anyone tell me what this “pooch” just below the bullet bulge is? Main reason I’m concerned is this round is a full house 454 round with imr4227 which is compressed. It’s the starting load in the hornady manual with 300gr Xtp mag.

I’m wondering if the powder compressing done this or if the crimp die did? I belled the mouths plenty and bullets went in smoothly and didn’t require any excess force, I used a heavy crimp, but even that was nothing out of the ordinary feeling, no breaking through the jacket, no foot on the handle or something stupid like that either.

The brass was sized before loading, it’s brand new starline brass. It fell in the chamber and fell back out just to see if any issue there.

I’m feeling pulling the bullets, resizing, and going with a moderate load of unique/250gr Xtp to straighten it back out.

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1. Shouldn't really need to "BELL the mouths plenty"... You only expand enough to get the bullet started. Jacketed bullets typically don't require a funnel to get started. The more you expand, the more you have to recover with the seating and crimp.

2. The Hornady load data (9th Edition) in 454 Casull for their 300gr. XTP Mag bullet is indeed showing IMR 4227 powder, but doesn't indicate it is compressed. It maxes out at 1500 fps. Not absolutely a "full house" load (see below) when 296 takes it to 1650 fps, which is 10% more.

3. The HODGDONS (powder manufacturer's) load data for 454 Casull does not list ANY loads for IMR 4227 with a 300gr XTP bullet. There is load data for a different 300gr bullet, but it is for H(odgdon)4227 powder. It shows a COMPRESSED 31.0gr load, but it is their MAX, not their STARTING load, and at 1700+ fps. No load data for IMR 4227 at all for any bullet weights. None.

Different bullet and different powder. Could be a recipe for disaster.

Please reconsider and review your loading process and load data, for your own sake!

I'm assuming the bulge is from the crimp stage do you seat and crimp separately? So if the case bulges when crimping back off your crimp die also your cases have to be trimmed to length exactly the same !

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You can shoot a bulged case if it chambers wont hurt anything and it will remove bulge upon firing if you pull bullets and resize you'll have to remove primer decapping pin from die

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If it chambers, shoot it. Seat and crimp in separate operations. If already seating/crimping separately, seat the bullet to top of cannelure and back off crimp a bit.

Had the same thing happen with 300gr Nosler Partitions and i was seating/crimping in separate operations. Had to back off crimp die a bit to solve problem. My gun is a FA so less forgiving with out of spec ammo.

Good luck

Paul

I seat and crimp separate.

I can’t get the bullet low enough with the compressed charge to crimp right at the top. Best I can get is 1/2-3/4 up the groove. The crimps are uniform and a case with no bullet just folds the mouth over as it should.

All cases chambered without issue.

I’ll back off the crimp some and see what happens.

Matter of fact, I’m just going to pull the rest and try 296 and 2400, see how they fit. Something just isn’t sitting right about this being compressed at the starting load and not being noted. My Lyman 50th shows 27.5gr as a start, but that’ll be compressed a bunch as well.

Just for grins, I have 20 pieces of hornady brass from the factory ammo I had, once fired, 28.2gr in those was just as bad.

I’ve loaded 4227 in 357,41,44 and 460 mag. Only the 90% up charges were compressed no matter the bullet. It’s my most accurate “magnum” powder in 41,44, and 460.

I’ve read several times that 4227 is a powder you’ll have trouble stuffing enough in the case to have pressure problems, not something I ever tried to find out or wanted to find out.

Nothing wrong with a compressed load your not getting the bulge from seating ? Only at crimp stage ?

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So, you are saying the gunsmith at ruger will contradict the markings on their gun barrel and the manual for the SRH. How did these guns ever get passed the lawyers and on the market if the info is wrong? They had better release a recall to remove 45 colt from the barrels asap.

I have shot both 45 colt brass and 454 in my puma 454 rifle and taurus raging bull for years. I clean my guns after every session and have never seen the crud ring folks speak of. Keep your guns clean!

Rosewood

Again: these are two DIFFERENT POWDERS.

H4227 & IMR 4227. They are similar. But...

They ARE NOT IDENTICAL. The load data is NOT IDENTICAL for these two powders.

No I thought he was referring to a freedom arms revolver my bad !!

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To drift only slighty, and since it was mentioned in this thread, how can one tell if his super redhawk is showing signs of forcing cone erosion or wear? Is this something to be concerned about at 1k rounds or 10k rounds? I shoot only cast performance bullets, 265 grain to 335 grain. I've found that shooting the casull relieves the arthritis in my hands and wrists a little.

I use a 460 brass slightly belled and "sharpened" as a crud scraper after shooting 45lc.

Looking forward to the NEO Bunch meeting this morning. Been a couple years since I've attended.

Dave

They are now per hodgdon. Haven't always been. I thought they had discontinued one of the names after they combined them.

Interestingly the website makes no mention of H4227 on the PRODUCTS side, but lists it as a reloading powder with load data separate from IMR 4227 in RELOADING DATA...?

Back in Sept-2014 I emailed Hodgdon this very question, are they the same powder, as only IMR 4227 was available for purchase but they mainly only showed H4227 load data on their website.

They replied:

"They are not exactly the same but you can use the same loading data using the starting load and working your way up watching for pressure signs."

Okay, but I had found this & replied to them:

"I got to looking around at your data & while you say they are not the same can you explain why some of your online reloading data shows it is exactly the same?
[357Mag (125gr & 158gr HDY XTP) & 44Mag (240gr Nos JHP -see attached-) in the rifle section]"

They never replied back.

Haven't looked any since but I see that load data is still being listed.

.



.

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Waiting for the break of day

Now, THAT load data certainly appears to be identical...?

Cheers!

The forcing cone will show a wrinkled appearance I guess if I had to describe it. the round count depends on the loads and the burn rates of the powders you use also cutting is also indication of using certain powders as well as cylinder gap

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I can shed a little light . My Late #1 Shooting & Handloading Partner had a tripple cylinder FA (.454, .45 Colt, .45acp ) .

Freedom Arms has extra tight chambers . .45 Colt in middle to upper end of allowable spec frequently won't chamber in FA .454 chambers . FA .45 Colt chambers are a hair larger diameter .

**********************

Way , way back in the day , IMR was the only 4227 . When WWII surplus stocks ran out , Hogdon made H4227 just a hair slower than IMR4227 , so than anyone directly using historical load data would be safe , and a hair Lower in pressure .

At some point after Hogdon took over both brands , they used the exact same powder in both . More recently , they now only market it under one brand name .

I Like 4227 . It is part of my default Big Bore Loading .

Cast bullet of standard for caliber weight .

90% load density * for that exact bullet , seated to crimp groove . It can vary with bullets of same nominal weight .

WLP primer .

Velocity will be about 75- 80% of the powders giving highest velocities in that caliber .

The Worst accuracy I've ever gotten with that formula is 1.25in @ 25 yds .

I have no info about whether or not the factory will invalidate warranties or not. I just don't know and do not wish to get into the middle of that.

I do know why the manufacturer does not want us using .45 LC in a .454 cylinder. It is due to the crud buildup that happens at the end of the case when you shoot a shorter case in a longer cylinder. Even if religiously cleaned out, over time, this action can alter the near perfection of that area of the cylinder. This situation constricts the actual diameter of that cylinder in that spot. That spot is in the general area of where you would expect most .454 rounds to be crimped. This could affect the pressure needed to release the crimp. That could create an unpredictable pressure situation in a round that routinely operates in a pretty scary pressure situation.

Again I don't know how far they are willing to go to enforce this. I do know that they seriously do not want you to do it.

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