.41 Mag, lead Keith-type SWC

Dave Workman

Dave Workman

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I finally broke down and started loading lead SWC bullets for my .41 Magnum. Two different loads for starters.
Starting with 200-grainers from Stateline
16.5 grs of 2400
and
5.0 grs of Titegroup

Winchester std large pistol primers

Reasonably accurate, no signs of pressure but either my chrony was acting up or maybe light conditions weren't right but I was expecting a bit more zip out of the 2400. Hmmmmm?

Perhaps if I go to a heavier bullet; I spoke to Frankie over at Rim Rock in Polson, Mt. (heck of a nice guy, BTW!) and they make a 215-grainer for which there seem to be several more powder options in Hodgdon's 'Annual Manual' that might provide a bit more spunk.

Maybe a heavier powder charge?

I'm open to suggestions. Been loading for the .41 for years, JHPs from Nosler, Sierra and Hornady primarily...some Speer Gold Dots...but supply these days is not always reliable and lead pills certainly don't wear out a barrel. ;)
 
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My go to load for the 41 mag is the Lyman 410459 on top of 18.5grs. of 2400. Probably runs about 1250 fps but I haven't checked them in a while.

Do not substitute the 215 gr bullet, it is a very different bullet.

OLGzono.jpg


from the left, 250 gr WFNGC, 220 gr 410459, 215 gr SWCBB, 200gr TC (?)
 
It has been years since I have fired jacketed projectiles through a .41. However, I have sent thousands of rounds downrange using various lead alloy. I have been using my own hard cast bullets, mostly from a Saeco #411 (a 220gr. Keith design) but also from a couple of similar Hensley and Gibbs moulds. The current component situation might warrant considering taking up casting your own, it has certainly made me much more independent and I have been more than satisfied with the cost and performance. Most of the loads were with 7.0 grains of Unique powder.
 
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Hello Fellow .41 mag lover! I've been loading for the .41 mag since ~1971 and prefer cast for most of my shooting. Load #2 is my most used. The loads listed were from an article by Keith from long ago, but I've been using them for years. Your mileage may vary!
Elmer Keith's 3 loads using the 220 gr. SWC that he designed (Lyman #410459):
(1.) Gallery Load: 4.5 grs. of Bullseye. (2.) Every Day Load: 7.5 grs. of Unique (Tried this one years ago & like it. Recoil's a bit Snappy, but comfortable.). (3.) Magnum Load: 20 grs. of 2400. (This one needs to be "approached CAREFULLY!).

Another option you might try:
8.0 grs. of Unique is considered a "standard mid-range" load today. <= Try Berry's 210 gr. Plated Bullets w/this load. (7.5 grs. has plenty of power and is more fun!).

Most of my cast loads run around 950-1,000 fps. and I have found that level to be accurate, pleasant to shoot, and highly effective for whatever needed to be shot. I have used lots of Unique and WW 231 in loading for the .41 thru the years, but over the past 2-4 years have also used Accurate #5744 with complete satisfaction. Trail Boss, TiteGroup, and IMR 4227 have also proven to be good powders.

I hope this helps to solve your quest.

WYT-P
Skyhunter
 
rkrcpa said:
My go to load for the 41 mag is the Lyman 410459 on top of 18.5grs. of 2400. Probably runs about 1250 fps but I haven't checked them in a while.

Do not substitute the 215 gr bullet, it is a very different bullet.

OLGzono.jpg


from the left, 250 gr WFNGC, 220 gr 410459, 215 gr SWCBB, 200gr TC (?)
Click to expand...

Oh, heavens no! Wouldn't "substitute" a 215 grainer. They have much different data, if that's what you're suggesting. Hodgdon's Annual Manual has more data for the 215-grainer than the 200-grain bullet.
18.5 grs of 2400, eh? Hmmmm. thx!
 
Skyhunter said:
Hello Fellow .41 mag lover! I've been loading for the .41 mag since ~1971 and prefer cast for most of my shooting. Load #2 is my most used. The loads listed were from an article by Keith from long ago, but I've been using them for years. Your mileage may vary!
Elmer Keith's 3 loads using the 220 gr. SWC that he designed (Lyman #410459):
(1.) Gallery Load: 4.5 grs. of Bullseye. (2.) Every Day Load: 7.5 grs. of Unique (Tried this one years ago & like it. Recoil's a bit Snappy, but comfortable.). (3.) Magnum Load: 20 grs. of 2400. (This one needs to be "approached CAREFULLY!).

Another option you might try:
8.0 grs. of Unique is considered a "standard mid-range" load today. <= Try Berry's 210 gr. Plated Bullets w/this load. (7.5 grs. has plenty of power and is more fun!).

Most of my cast loads run around 950-1,000 fps. and I have found that level to be accurate, pleasant to shoot, and highly effective for whatever needed to be shot. I have used lots of Unique and WW 231 in loading for the .41 thru the years, but over the past 2-4 years have also used Accurate #5744 with complete satisfaction. Trail Boss, TiteGroup, and IMR 4227 have also proven to be good powders.

I hope this helps to solve your quest.

WYT-P
Skyhunter
Click to expand...

It does and it doesn't. I don't use Unique. My preferred "hot" propellants are 2400 and H110. I've found them to be very consistent, so I stick with 'em.

Thanks so much for your input!
 
I use the RCBS 41 SWC mould (or similar commercially cast bullet) for my projectiles. I cast them to a medium hardness, size to .410" and lube with Alox lube.

With 8.0 grains of Unique and a standard LP primer. They run around 800 to 850 fps depending on which S&W I send them through. Accuracy is generally match grade and they duplicate the old police load that I carried in my Model 58 as an LEO. I use this load for 95% of my 41 Magnum shooting and it kicks around plastic gallon milk jugs at 50 yards with ease.

When I carry my Model 58 for boars, I load the old 220 grain Speer jacketed SWC (no longer available) over H110 or 2400 with magnum primers.
 
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Scharfschuetzer said:
I use the RCBS 41 SWC mould (or similar commercially cast bullet) for my projectiles. I cast them to a medium hardness, size to .410" and lube with Alox lube.

With 8.0 grains of Unique and a standard LP primer. They run around 800 to 850 fps depending on which S&W I send them through. Accuracy is generally match grade and they duplicate the old police load that I carried in my Model 58 as an LEO. I use this load for 95% of my 41 Magnum shooting and it kicks around plastic gallon milk jugs at 50 yards with ease.

When I carry my Model 58 for boars, I load the old 220 grain Speer jacketed SWC (no longer available) over H110 or 2400 with magnum primers.
Click to expand...


I'm not set up to cast and at my age, I have no intention of doing so. I'll be happy to buy cast bullets from people who do it for a living.
Thanks for your reply.:)
 
My SWCs drop from my mold at 212 grains

For decades I have been loading them on top of 9 grains of unique

This gives me 1070FPS from the 4" revolvers and 1125FPS from the 6" - 6 1/2" revolvers.
 
My favorite "zippy" .41 mag load is 22 grains of WW296 (H110) over a Keith style cast 215 grain bullet. In my 5" Redhawk it chronos 1430 fps. I cannot recommend this load to anyone else because, depending on the loading manual, it can be as much as a 2 grain overload. However I get no pressure signs or sticking cases. Plus I don't think I could put enough WW296 in the case to damage that Readhawk. The cylinder walls are stupid thicki!
 
FWIW the Keith designed bullet is the H&G 258 SWC not the Lyman 410459 . As a matter of fact the Lyman design pissed Elmer off so bad he ended his relationship with Lyman , which had been ongoing since the Ideal days . They thinned the front driving band down & changed the nose all of which Keith considered critical . In all honesty the RCBS , Lyman & H&G are all good bullets & shoot well from 800fps on up .
I've always went for heavier slugs in the 41 mag as down here hogs are our primary game . Deer are so small I won't shoot 'em as our state wildlife folks won't let us thin out the herd . With the exception of 2 counties up on the Alabama line , rest is overpopulated & underfed .
 
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boatbum101 said:
FWIW the Keith designed bullet is the H&G 258 SWC not the Lyman 410459 . As a matter of fact the Lyman design pissed Elmer off so bad he ended his relationship with Lyman , which had been ongoing since the Ideal days . They thinned the front driving band down & changed the nose all of which Keith considered critical . In all honesty the RCBS , Lyman & H&G are all good bullets & shoot well from 800fps on up .
Click to expand...

True but the 410459 is close in design and accurate, it really comes down to finding someone who casts either the H&G or Lyman. Most casters sell something they refer to as "Keith" style but in reality are not.

Montana Bullet Works has an LBT SWC-K for $178/500

Moyers Cast Bullets has the 410459 for $66/500.

I've been using Moyers for years and have driven then @ 1400fps with no problems.
 
Sorry I can't help you with first hand information since I don't have a .41 Magnum and never reloaded the cartridge. I can however tell you what's in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks #3 and #4. Since you were expecting more velocity from 2400 I'm listing the loads for that powder so you can compare your load to the Lyman loads.

From Cast Bullet Handbook #3:
212gr Lyman mold # 41028
15.4gr to 20.0gr 2400 for 1292 fps

215gr Lyman #410610 SWC
14.2gr to 18.8gr 2400 for 1272 fps

From Cast Bullet Handbook #4:
195gr Lee #410-195 SWC
16.6gr to 18.5gr 2400 for 1350 fps

210gr RCBS #41-210 SWC
15.3gr to 17.1gr 2400 for 1286 fps

220gr Seaco (Redding) # 418 FRN bullet
14.5gr to 16.2gr 2400 for 1222 fps (potentially most accurate)

If you want info for other powders five me a holler and I'll see if that powder/bullet data is in the cast bullet handbook or my other books.

I hope this helps you a little, good luck, be safe...
 
ArchAngelCD said:
Sorry I can't help you with first hand information since I don't have a .41 Magnum and never reloaded the cartridge. I can however tell you what's in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks #3 and #4. Since you were expecting more velocity from 2400 I'm listing the loads for that powder so you can compare your load to the Lyman loads.

From Cast Bullet Handbook #3:
212gr Lyman mold # 41028
15.4gr to 20.0gr 2400 for 1292 fps

215gr Lyman #410610 SWC
14.2gr to 18.8gr 2400 for 1272 fps

From Cast Bullet Handbook #4:
195gr Lee #410-195 SWC
16.6gr to 18.5gr 2400 for 1350 fps

210gr RCBS #41-210 SWC
15.3gr to 17.1gr 2400 for 1286 fps

220gr Seaco (Redding) # 418 FRN bullet
14.5gr to 16.2gr 2400 for 1222 fps (potentially most accurate)

If you want info for other powders five me a holler and I'll see if that powder/bullet data is in the cast bullet handbook or my other books.

I hope this helps you a little, good luck, be safe...
Click to expand...

WOW! Very kind of you to share.
Thx
 
Guys, thx for the suggestions but I must say I don't use Unique. Never have.
My preferred propellants include:
H110
2400
Titegroup
AutoComp
CFE Pistol
HP-38
HS-6

Still, I'm indebted to you all for the responses. Handloaders are among the most helpful shooters around, and I can say that from more than 45 years of experience...and more than 60 years of being a shooter. :)
 
boatbum101 said:
FWIW the Keith designed bullet is the H&G 258 SWC not the Lyman 410459 . As a matter of fact the Lyman design pissed Elmer off so bad he ended his relationship with Lyman , which had been ongoing since the Ideal days . They thinned the front driving band down & changed the nose all of which Keith considered critical . In all honesty the RCBS , Lyman & H&G are all good bullets & shoot well from 800fps on up .
I've always went for heavier slugs in the 41 mag as down here hogs are our primary game . Deer are so small I won't shoot 'em as our state wildlife folks won't let us thin out the herd . With the exception of 2 counties up on the Alabama line , rest is overpopulated & underfed .
Click to expand...


:D:rolleyes:
Why doesn't that surprise me about Elmer Keith? I never met him, but having read his stuff and actually listening to a couple of recorded interviews with him, he was one of those fellows who certainly didn't mince words or suffer what he considered foolishness.
I know some people who did know him. ;)
 
Have been a 41 mag fan for a while. Cast loads have been 8 grains of Universal Clays under a 215 cast, also 8 grains of Unique. Recently inherited a 4 pound keg of Herco. Just today tried 7.5 grains under a 215 and was impressed. Nine grains of Herco opened the group up a bit so will stick with 7.5 grains. Shooting a well used 4 inch model 57, my last three shots hovered close to an inch off hand at 25 yards. Now to stretch the distance some.
 
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