I've been getting back into reloading after many years of not doing it. I have two Dillons that are both 450's converted to 550's in the past. I think I just use to dacap after cleaning as I was reloading but as of late, I started to decap prior to cleaning. My thinking is that it is best to clean out the primer pockets. I have a bunch of fired shells that need to be decayed so I am wondering which is best??? I have many in each condition at the moment.

I always have trouble with tumbler media jamming the primer hole if I deprime them first

I clean before….reduce opportunity for tumbling media gets stuck in the pocket

In almost sixty years of handloading, I've yet to see rifle or handgun brass primer pockets that needed cleaning or that had such a buildup of fired primer residue that it interfered with seating a new primer. There are always exceptions. It hurts nothing to clean primer pockets, but it's busy work rather than an essential handloading procedure.

If I have brass that's hit the ground, I have two choices and I've done both: wipe off the brass before resizing and depriming so that tiny grit, etc. doesn't scratch the inside of the sizing die. Or, run the brass through a tumbler or vibratory machine minimally, just enough to remove any sand or dirt particles from the outside of the case before sizing and depriming.

As for media stuck in a flash hole, I examine every case if I I've tumbled deprimed brass; takes but a fraction of a second to look at a handful of brass and it's an extra opportunity to examine your brass. I use an icepick-type punch to remove media from a flash hole.

I decap the brass, tumble, then size the decap pin knocks out any media stuck in the flash hole.
I am not sure why I do it this way, I have reloaded many thousands of rounds without cleaning the primer pocket and never had a problem seating primers.

In the past, I have let the Dillon do the depriming. However, a couple of years ago my good friend Tennexplorer gave me a huge bag of dirty 45acp brass. Another local friend had just started using the small stainless steel rods and liquid to tumble cases.

I have an RCBS universal deprimer, and I deprimed the cases and then let the friend tumble them. I have never seen such clean cases. I doubt the cases will ever get that dirty in my life. I still have the depriming rod in place so every case is also checked by the 550.

I have other cases I have had for years that I tumble. I leave the primers in them.

From the shooting range straight into the vibratory case cleaner. Once they're clean, the brass is ready for subsequent reloading operations.

__________________
Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

I decap everything and tumble before sticking dirty cases on my clean press. The order of steps that follows depends on whether I'm loading handgun or rifle. I especially like having the inside of the case clean too. It helps keep neck tension consistent, which helps with velocity consistency.

Universal de-prime, tumble wet with pins and then reload..

__________________
Todd

Decap, clean via sonic wet cleaner with Dawn & Lemishine, dry in toaster oven. check primer pockets and clean the ones that have gook remaining.

__________________
Too Soon Old, Too Late Schmart

Take my range brass and throw it in my Dillon vibratory cleaner for a few hours. Take it out and reload on 550 or 650. No need for all that extra prep to handgun brass. Waste of time

I use an old Lyman vibratory case cleaner and I de-prime after cleaning. With crushed corncob media, there will almost always be a tiny piece of media stuck in the flash hole, but the de-priming pin takes care of that. If I de-prime and then clean the cases, the primer pockets are likely to come out packed full of media plus have a piece stuck in the flash hole.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

Decap after cleaning here.

rumbler, then size/decap. However there are lots of ways to skin the cat, so whatever works for your purpose.

I’m in the decap first, then wet tumble camp. I would say decapping first or not would depend on how you clean. If you dry tumble in a vibratory, then you might want to decap after. That way, you won’t have the media plugging the primer pockets. If you wet tumble, I would decap first, so the primer pockets get clean.

I decap with a universal decapping die on a Lee APP, then wet tumble. I prime off-press with either a RCBS universal hand primer, or a RCBS shell holder hand primer for the cases that don’t like the universal, like the .32 cases and .45AR. Subsequently, I have removed the decapping pins from all of my sizing dies.

Some say the extra steps are a waste of time, but I enjoy doing it and really like the clean, shiny brass I end up with.

__________________
USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

If I am wet tumbling I decap first to clean the primer pockets but I would not say it is necessary. The worst part of wet tumbling is the pins getting stuck in some cases like 357 or my 38-55. I am switching to the stainless chip to avoid that headache. I digress.
Vibratory cleaning they go from fired into the tub then decap after.

Not that it matters, but I use a universal decapper before I tumble my brass. That probably isn't necessary but it's what I do. I did notice the primer pockets being cleaner when I did that. That probably doesn't matter either. The universal decapper has a stronger pin so they don't break.

When I size the pin goes through the primer hole and takes out any medium that got in there.

So I'm doing an extra step that isn't necessary but some people take their reloading to farther extremes than that. They actually brush or scrape the primer pockets, which is what the manuals tell you to do.

__________________
That's just somebody talkin.

I’m kind of OCD but I just like clean and shiny brass. When I come home from the range I wet tumble without pins just to get them clean enough for the dies. Just add hot water and soap and let the tumbler do the work. Then I deprime/resize and expand the brass. When I have enough for a real tumbling session they get wet tumbler with pins and dried in a case dryer. A quick dry tumble with crushed walnut and Nu-Finish to polish them up. They look like new. Don’t recall ever getting any media stuck in the primer pockets. The media separator gets it all out. I hand-prime so I would notice any walnut in the pocket.

But I haven’t loaded a round in over a year anyway. The component shortage has slowed my shooting way down.

Deprime with either a LEE or RCBS decapping die, wet tumble with pins, resize the dry clean cases, expand per the intended bullet and hand prime...

Then all that's left is powder, seating & the crimp.

Cheers!

P.S. My sizing dies look like new.

I'm a "clean first" guy.

My fired pistol brass goes into a tumbler with walnut media for a few hours, then into a little squirrel cage gizmo to separate the brass from the media. Then sized and decapped in carbide sizing dies. I prime them with a Lee priming tool I've had for probably 35 years or more. Like some others have mentioned here, scrubbing out primer pockets is a waste of time. I honestly don't know what good bringing in soap and water and lemishine (whatever that is) and or steel pins or toaster ovens or anything else would do to improve that process, given the mission is simply working with brass clean enough to properly inspect that won't harm your dies. If you really love super bright shiny brass, add a spoonful of a good quality liquid car wax to the tumbling media and run the tumbler for ten or fifteen minutes before adding the brass.

Thanks all for your replies. I have done it both ways. I have a large Dillon tumbler that I have had for years and recently purchased a stainless pin system. I was just setting up a depriming only station to deprime prior to cleaning so I guess I can go either direction.

I clean prior to decapping. That way, I know for sure that the flashhole is clear.

Depending on the cartridge, both methods are utilized.

For my handgun ammo, I usually throw the brass into my vibratory tumbler with media for a few hours. Honestly, I reload too many rounds of handgun ammo to add the extra steps.

For rifle ammo, that is now a different story. Since I am looking to create sub-MOA ammo out to almost 1050 yards, I deprime using my universal depriving die, then drop the empties into my ultrasonic wet tumbler for a few cycles.

For rifle ammo, I may be loading 100 or 200 rounds a month, depending on whether there's a 1000 yard match or not. For handgun ammo, I'm looking at anywhere from 600 to a 1000 rounds a month.

__________________
Judge control not gun control!

Only issue with resizing after tumbling with pins is that the cases are so squeaky clean that they stick in the dies. I quick wash to get the grit off without pins and they don’t stick as much. You can lube the cases but that da gum up the dies a bit.

Dry tumbling does a fine job, but steel pins and hot water wish Dawn soap gets them looking much cleaner. I’ve tried them all and nothing gets them as clean as wet tumbling. Bit of a hassle separating the pins and makes a bit of a mess but I do it outside so no real mess there.

All my handgun caliber sizing dies are carbide and I don't really notice any stuck cases, although some brass varieties are sometimes a little harder to size (just like some primer pockets are harder to prime).

The rifle caliber brass gets lubricated prior to the resizing so any stuck cases have been few and far between. Wiping off the lube after any trimming isn't that big of a deal for me, either. I tend to clean my rifle dies after use, a little Hornady One Shot on a Q-Tip works wonders.

For me there are two basic routines: case cleaning and prep, then the actual reloading activity. I tend to spend a couple days when I'm feeling ambitious & energetic to clean & prep stockpiled deprimed brass en masse. I like to have cases ready to go when I decide there is something I need to resupply or some new load I wish to explore.

Fortunately I can go quite a while (for most calibers) before I have to do so: between having loaded ammo ready to go & prepped brass on the shelf I can procrastinate away...

Cheers!

I had a lot of issues with pins when I first started wet tumbling. I still use the strainer that came with my tumbler to dump and rinse, but then I spread them out on an old beach towel with a fan blowing to dry out a bit. I shuffle them around some to get more pins out, then I scoop handfuls into a frankford arsenal wet/dry separator. Don’t dump them in or you’ll just mix the pins already separated. A few cranks back and forth in a rocking motion, and all the pins are out, neatly contained in the bottom of the separator. I then use our big air fryer with three baskets to finish drying at 150 deg. for 15 minutes. The three baskets will easily hold the full tumblers worth of brass.

__________________
USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

When all carbon is removed from brass via wet tumble with pins,I have had issues with the powder charge/expander station on my Dillon presses. The cases tend to stick on the expander/ powder funnel and make for a jerky process. They are too clean. I have tried it. 45 years of tumble then load works best for me. I did four hundred for a match last night on my 650 after about 4 hours of tumble. Smooth as glass

Both. Straight walled pistol cases that will be loaded on a progressive press with TC dies gets tumbled before loading. Rifle cases that will be reloaded on a single stage get sized and deprimed first, then tumbled. That way the case lube is removed before the round is finished. When I load 223 range ammo, I resize then tumble. I then set up my progressive without a size die and run them through. That way there is no need to deal with lube after the round is done.

What are your goals? Are you loading precision rifle or plinking pistol rounds?

90% of my hand loading is for rounds to be shot at steel 25 yards and in, so precision is not as critical as some hand loaders running out to 500+ yards. With all that said, I clean pistol brass in SS media with spent primer still intact. The Dillon's don't deserve dirty cases!

I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. Either way you need to inspect each case after cleaning.

__________________
S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

Take say a 38 spl case with media in the flash hole. Take another 38 spl case with the primer hole open. Load both asn shake them in your hand so you won't know which is which. Load and shoot. You won't be able to tell which was which.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

Deprime all cases...rifle need a lot of hand work si I know the cases are ready to load. I deprime wet tumble run 'em through the separator...dry on a towel on the truck tailgate....quite often I put them in a separator again..very seldom have any pins come out. And when I run them through the Dillons I spray with lanolin based wet lube...just a spritz...no problems at all. I will say I have picked up a case I may suspect isn't quite right. I load most of my brass at one time and store in military ammo cans...after inspection. I have approx 5000 38s to load now...probably 1800 44 special...223...oy! a lot of work...but I have to size before I trim on my Giraud trimmer...but that goes pretty quick.

I am a range brass scrounge. Why buy when you can pick? As such, many of the cases that come off the outdoor range may have sand or other junk attached. One of my gun buddies just introduced me to the wet method using the small SS pins and I was amazed at how clean they came out.

I was always concerned about placing range brass in my dies before cleaning for fear of hurting them so I lean toward the clean first method.

I have a home made rotary tumbler powered by an old aquarium pump motor and a newer vibratory tumbler. However after seeing the wet method, I have one of those on order. I never liked having to clean the media out of the primer pocket when I did remove the primer first.

The wet tumbler is so quick and efficient, you could easily clean, remove the primer and clean again if having a super clean primer pocket was your desire.

The only complaint that I have read is that unless super tight, the tumbler container can leak a little. So my suggestion is to not set it up on the kitchen or dining room table if you are married or live with a SO. If you do, you may want to consider placing the unit on a cookie sheet with raised edges to catch any drips.

__________________
James Redfield
LM #497

Well an interesting footnote to my reloading saga. I received my Frankford Arsenal wet tumbler last week however I was a little taken aback when it appeared that the carton had been put back together and instead of one flap being blue with printing, it was merely a piece of brown corrugated cardboard taped to what was left of the original box. Upon opening the box it appeared that the base unit drive assembly wheels were scuffed and scratched and when I opened the drum there was water and SS pins inside. It was very obvious that this was a returned item and being passed off as new.

Needless to say I was not pleased. When you pay for a new item, you expect a new item. I immediately called the supplier, explained the situation and said that I wanted to return the item and receive a NEW one. The customer service girl was very understanding and stated that she would send me a return label and as soon as it was returned they would send out a replacement. Not pleased, I told her that I had a shoot coming up that Sunday and needed it by Saturday. She told me that one would go out immediately. Well truth be told, I did not have a shoot but thought that it might light a fire. As it turned out, the new tumbler did not arrive until Monday but at least it appears to be new.

Soooo, getting back to the original topic of this thread, in reading the instructions that came with the unit, they DO recommend that you wash your brass first, especially if you are a range scrounge, but you can do so with just water and the cleaning solution, no SS pins. They even supply strainers that you can replace one of the clear end covers with so you can drain out the dirty water and leave the cases in the drum. You then can remove the cases, remove the primers and then run them a second time using the pins. This will clean the exterior, the interior and the primer pockets as well. Remove, dry on a spread out towel (a fan helps this process) and then go ahead and reload.

__________________
James Redfield
LM #497

I always decap first then put it in the tumbler. I don't want the primer crud getting on my press.

Same. The pins really do the job and don't get stuck in the primer hole.

Condition, Condition, Condition.

If I am loading straight wall cases that were mine to start with, (known to be free of grit, etc) then I generally size them before deciding to tumble or not.

For any unknown fired brass I tumble before doing anything else. Cleaned brass is easier to inspect before proceeding any farther down the road with it.

Bottleneck cartridges get tumbled to remove Full Length sizing lube, so they see the tumbler with and without primers.

I have a rotary separator that does a good job of jarring any media out of the flash holes.

I keep a paper clip handy to punch out the stubborn bits of media that insist on personal attention.

Cleaning primer pockets may be a waste of time, but if I'm not loading on a progressive press I usually give the pockets a ride on the case prep unit's cleaning tool.

If I'm in a hurry, concerned about time at all, I don't need to be loading anything.

I loaded precision rifle rounds for many years, case prep is easier for me to "just do it" than it is to think about what I' consider as skimping on.

__________________
GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

The biggest reason to decap before sizing is to reduce your expose to lead. Almost all the lead exposure associated with reloading is due to lead based priming compounds.

How much reduction to lead exposure is achieved by priming 1st? 75%, 50%, 25% ?

90+% would be conservative. This can be verified with a lead test kit. Those of you still using vibratory tumblers are at the greatest risk.

When I started reloading in the early 70’s my equipment consisted of a used press, balance beam scale and powder measure. For the longest time I just loaded .38 Special from a lot of about 300 to 400 once fired nickeled brass. My main concern was to avoid over charges or double charges
of Bullseye. Case prep consisted of cleaning the primer pocket with a small flat blade screw driver and wiping the case lube of with a paper towel.

Now days I pay a lot more attention to case prep. I have an RCBS media cleaner that I bought in 2008. This has served me very well but I decided to up grade to the liquid and stainless steel pin method. What works best for me is to run the brass through the RCBS with corn cobb media if brass is dirty. I then resize, decap and brush clean primer pocket. I then use a Frankford Arsenal pin tumbler with their soap packet. After 2 hours the cases come out super clean. Next step is retrieve the steel pins and rinse the cases. This is actually the worst part, but not too bad. I use their pin magnet to gather up the pins.

Next step is to dry the brass . I use a Frankford case dryer. While I have heard some negative reports about the FÃ case dryer mine works well.

After the cases are dried they are trimmed , deburred and and flared and are now ready to reload.

I am very satisfied with the results of this case cleaning method. While there is some extra work involved the brass comes out of the steel pine tumbler thoroughly leaned inside and out and looks like brand new brass.

For all that still think priming media stuck in flash holes still causes problems.........I use 38 spl deprimed hulls to push through 1/2" canning wax blocks. Then prime and shoot.........The primer force alone will propel the wax bullet very fast......Enough speed to hit a target at 10-12 feet.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

I use both methods of cleaning my cases. I prefer the wet tumbling method. But I deprive most of the time. Using the dry I bought a big bag of walnut hull bedding from pet smart. It is pretty fine and not prone to clogging up flash holes.. Even though I deprime I size after cleaning anyway so no worries about stuck media....even with wet cleaning. My wet tumbler is a FA brand. Got it at a garage sale new in box...40 bucks.. After loading I clean the case lube off with a dry large Dillon tumbler with corn cob media as I spray lube even pistol cases. 150 or more for 5 mins does the job. Yeah more work but never have any worries with ammo. I just put the loaded stuff in military ammo cans with a label inside and out. Shotshell goes in 5 gallon buckets or plastic totes. I used to clean them in an OLD gasoline powered washing machine till about 1999 when it kinda wore out. Way back I even picked up plastic wads to reuse. They even got washed. AA wads were usually good for at least 2 loadings. Time was money you know? Not as important nowadays. My 45 auto cases are pretty even if you can't read the worn out head stamp on some

I used dry media media very briefly. Clearing media was a problem. For a while bought used cleaned brass. Came with primers still in. Checked the pockets and cleaned quite a few prior to installing primer

Switched to wet tumble. I pre clean with soak in dishwasher liquid and lemishine. I am using a Lee APP for primer removal. APP with 4 feed tubes makes quick work of de prime.

Wet tumble with pins. They look like new.

A bit anal but not that bad with APP deprime. Preclean is in small plastic bucket. Soak and shake a little while to keep follow on process clean

I’ve always cleaned my brass and then decapped and primed my cases. Never had a problem with primer pockets being very dirty.

__________________
James
On the Llano Estacado

Being 95% self-taught when I started reloading in the '70s, "tutored" by a Brother-in-Law whose favorite load was ? gr. of 2400...about as much of it as the case would hold, then squish the Lyman gas check bullet on top. Impressive when he touched them off! Fortunately, he was shooting them in a Ruger Blackhawk. I figured it would be better to follow whatever information there was in my manual or gunzines of the time. "Skeeter" seemed to be a reliable source, and he spun a good yarn, too. I have always used vibratory dry media for case cleaning, usually a 50-50 combo of pet store walnut lizard beddding media and corn cob. I have a paper clip to use should there be some media stuck in the hole between the primer pocket and powder charge. I add a little Dillon case polish to every load, and it seems to work pretty well. (I have to try Mother's one of these first days!) I got some of the neat little RCBS primer pocket brushes, too(necessary? I dunno) but that's what they recommended back then. Lately, just to see, I used the hot water/Dawn dish soap/Citric acid mixture, then dried the brass on the driveway during the summer. Really clean brass...even the primer pockets are pretty good! I have enough brass that I don't worry about running out if I only clean and prep during the hot months. The liquid gets the brass really clean, but mostly I tumble my brass. I figure that the polish will do no more than shine up my carbide size dies, if I have removed any dirt or grit my brass may have picked up. I don't wipe my brass after cleaning, and am not sure it is necessary. The newer wet with pins method seems to work well, and one day, I may try it...just to see.