Just scored a pound of 231 at a local store!

One load I have only from an internet file containing many many 357 loads, so data has to be taken with a grain of salt. My Lyman book has nothing for 357 and 231. Thought I’d ask here if anyone had a printed source for something in this range.

<Unproven data from unknown source>
For the 125g XTP… W231 8.5g yielding 1514 fps. ~43kpsi

This, if safe, has real potential to be a high ME/lower recoil load. Thanks for any pointers.

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I think you may find a non-optimum powder like 231 in the .357 when pushed to maximum may give less than great accuracy.

I looked in the Speer #13 (certainly not the most recent) and they show a 125 grain jacketed bullet with 8.3 grs. 231 giving a MV of 1168. That's a very inefficient load when comparing the other more suitable powders in their chart that give much higher muzzle velocities than the 231 load.

Beware of unidentified and YouTubish-type load data. 231 is a far better powder for .38 Special use.

Nosler shows a starting load of 7.6 grains for 1320 FPS , max load of 8.6 grains for 1520 FPS with 125 grain HP

Sierra starts at 8.1 for 1200 FPS and finishes at 8.9 for 1300 FPS for same bullet. COAL 1.585

Speer shows 7.6 for 1129 and 8.3 for 1168 COAL 1.590 tested in model 19 with 6" bbl.

Hodgdon page itself shows 7.3 for 1335 and 8.5 for 1514 COAL 1.590 and a 10" bbl.

I may have gone into auto pilot for myself and read a couple HP-38 loads as WW-231.

Those are cited from "Complete Reloading Manual For The .357 Magnum" that lives in my living room.

I'd personally go straight to the Hodgdon Website.

I've always enjoyed WW 23/ HP-38 for it's low muzzle flash and low fouling, but it's never been my go to for extreme accuracy or velocity.

Sounds like there's plenty to explore and find a winner. Good luck!

My experience is that W231 can be used in a 357 Magnum but it is not ideal. Powders like IMR 4227 and Alliant 2400 work a lot better.

However W231 can be used if the data is here:
Reloading The .357 Magnum - Reload Ammo

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

Sounds like this data might have come from Hodgdon. Thanks, that’s a start!

There’s a good 9mm load in my Lyman. I know people like 231 for 38Sp and 45acp. So it covers my whole world.

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W231 is just fine in .357 target loads, particularly with bullets heavier than 125 grain. In full charge loads I’ve always preferred 2400. I think we will see less and less mention of 231 in new data as apparently the intent is to replace it with 244…?

I have been loading 231 for decades as my target loads in a few calibers

5.5 grains with a 158 grain hard cast semi wadcutter

This is about the same as a mid range 38 special loading and VERY accurate in most of my revolvers

Your 125 XTPs are very fine projectiles, I think you would need a 6" barrel or longer to break 1400 FPS with that 231 load

With the jacketed 125s I go for greater velocity using a 21.7 grain charge of H110. This has a measured velocity of 1531 FPS. This is an average from 3 different 6" Smith& Wessons

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"Acta non verba"

Using W231 will be OK if you have nothing else but while W231 is one of my favorite powders I don't use it for magnum loads. I use HS-6 or W296 for .357 Magnum loads. Those 2 powders let me load from medium power to.full.power loads.

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I can't find the actual data in my records right now but several years ago I tried the maximum listed load that I could find, 8.5 grs of 231 with a 125 gr JHP. Actual chronographed velocity out of my 4" 27-2 was 1330 fps. A bit below velocities reached with maximum charges of the slower powders. The high velocities you are seeing in manuals are from test barrels no doubt.

Good points… but one thing that interests me is the reduction in recoil that comes from using 8.5g of one powder vs 21.7 of another. Recoil is already reduced by going 125g vs 158 or ??

Alwslate, thank you for your 4” results! I think the Hodgdon data is from a 10”.

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So long as you are not trying to get full "Magnum" velocity, there is nothing wrong with using HP-38/W-231 in the 357 Magnum case.

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Recoil is reduced and muzzle blast and spitting from the BC gap is greatly reduced by using only 8.5 grs of a faster powder compared to 21.7 grs of a slower powder. I have come to favor Hodgdon Longshot over 2400 for .357 cast bullet loads for the same reason. 7.8 grs of Longshot with a Win mag or SR primer yields 1200 fps with a 158 gr cast SWC out of my 4" 27-2. Again a bit below max velocity but plenty useful. And 1330 fps with a 125 gr JHP may not be absolute maximum velocity but is still a potent SD load.

I never noticed any significant recoil from 357 Magnum. I loaded a lot of 110 grain and 125 grain jacketed hollow points behind Elmer Keith memorial loads of W296 (same powder as Hogden 110) and the resulting fireball would usually clear an indoor range within 6 shots. For that reason I do not recommend that powder any more.

If recoil is your thing you need to try 44 Magnum with 240 grain bullets behind a stout load of W296.

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W231 is a medium fast burn rate for the .357 Magnum and it can get 90% loads that work for me.

In my 686 6" revolver, I can load a 125 JHP in the magnum case with 8.0 grs of powder
and get a very accurate load that shoots POA at 1240fps.

Start low and work up, to see what your revolver likes.

I would not try "magnum" loads with anything faster than Unique.

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I like 231 for target loads in my .357's, .44's and .45 acp's. Usually better consistency and accuracy with slower powders at magnum velocities.

Faster powders can build pressure quickly, so charge weight accuracy is important. Don't let muzzle blast fool you, some of those magnum loads with 231 are just as high, or higher in pressure as the W-296 loads.

Larry

I load .357 magnum loads with 231 but i load them to .38 special velocities. I usually use 158 grain SWC over 3.5 grains of 231 for a very manageable super accurate load

Hodgdon Landing | Hodgdon

I use the Hodgdon / Winchester Powder Reloading Data Center.

My LGS has W231 so in 357 Magnum cases I do a 38 Special +P type load.

For Magnums I prefer 2400 years ago. Now I like Unique but for a Mid-Range load, W231 will do.

^^^^ THIS

My first choice for data is the bullet manufacturer. Second is the powder manufacturer. Lyman, Hornady & Sierra manuals for confirmation. I did find Sierra data for W-231 in 357 Magnum, as well as old Winchester data (2001). It looks like 110 or 125 grain bullets will work best, but W-231 still is far from optimal if velocity is your goal.

My reference materials are a couple floors down and I'm old & tired. 43K psi strikes me as more than a couple of tokes over the line.

I was wondering about that pressure too. I know SAAMI lowered 357 specs at some later point in time.

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I usually load to moderate velocities and in the event I need a full power load I use factory ammo. I am a competent reloader but I feel like it may reduce the risk of a reloading error and it keeps my brass supply healthy.

I also use the Winchester/Hodgdon reloading data center

My actual Winchester manual, a few years old now since Hodgdon got the marketing rights to Winchester powders, shows 8.1 grs of 231 with a 125 gr JHP at 1460 velocity from a test barrel. Pressure is listed as 42,500 CUP not PSI. Lyman manuals indicate that pressures of 35,000 PSI to be about the same as the old 46,000 CUP limit for the .357. 8.5 grs with a 125 gr JHP is probably around 35,000 PSI, about the current top std. When you consider that quality revolvers like S&W have at least a 100% over pressure safety margin, it's obvious that you can shoot all the handloads or factory loads at 35,000 PSI you want without any fears of somehow blowing up your gun. Consider the fact that 35,000 PSI isn't really all that hot. Some calibers have higher limits including the 9mm for which S&W K and J frames are made and J frames are made for the .357 also.

My standard 357 plinking load is 8.0gr of HP38 with a 125gr XTP. I get about ~1325fps out of a 6" 686. I shoot more of this load probably than any other, regardless of caliber. Hunting ammo would be with H110, but I don't typically hunt with 357.

They really didn't lower the pressure spec. There's a copper crusher limit now given as CUP and a piezo-electric limit given in PSI or the metric equivalent (given that CIP uses a somewhat different testing method, it might not be the same over yonder.) In handguns, there's very little correlation between CUP and piezo pressures. What there is seems to be somewhere at/below 17K in CUP & piezo.

Now then, some loading data has changed since the piezo system can do pressure/time graphs and they can show pressure spikes that didn't show up on the copper crusher system. If those spikes exceed pressure limits, the load data has to change to eliminate the excessive pressure.

You PLINK with XTPs??? I can only afford to use coated lead for plinking and targets. Maybe FMJ if I'm really pushing it.

To stay on topic, I use 231 or other faster powders in .357 cases to .38 loads on up a little and switch to 2400 for the heavier loads.

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Lol, you're right. I don't know why I use jacketed for 357. I use Bayou Bullets for most everything else. A long time habit I suppose from when I inherited a stockpile of jacketed 125's many years ago.